Bought new ES300 in June 1992. Very satisfied and raved about it to friends
and family for many years. Then in ~2000, it overheated 3 times. The first
2 times, Lexus charged $1300-$2000 (if memory serves me) to fix, but then
after the third time, they still insisted on another $2300 to fix it (only
days after they fixed the second time), I decided they didn't know what the
problem was. Very disappointed. So I gave my Lexus to my ex-Toyota-employed
cousin.

Now the car and the story are both off my chest...

The car was 8 years old when it failed. You don't state how many miles.
While I agree that this may be "disappointing", 8 trouble-free years is more
than most owners of American and European makes can say.


"Sam Hahn" <SSYHahn (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

So what was actually wrong? Blown (unnoticed) head gasket causing loss of
coolant and head warp? Water pump go bad? There are a lot of details missing
here. Not like Lexus dealers to blow a repair job and then make you pay for
their mistake.

Please elaborate.

Oh, and to others in this news group, let's not have any of the "BMW is
never wrong, their cars are perfect, it's just undeserving, unappreciative,
ignorant owners that have problems with BMW cars" (substitute Lexus for BMW)
nonsense that is so common in the BMW news group when someone complains
about a problem. If Lexus or a dealer screwed up, let's hear about it.


- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"Sam Hahn" <SSYHahn (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

"B. Newman" <bernardnewman (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

now own a Lexus ES300, I have driven GM products all my life and have
never had serious breakdowns other than parts that wear out like water
pumps and brakes. I normally keep my cars for more than 10 years. My
current Olds 88 is 9 years old with 250 000 miles, and it still drives
like new. Never had a power train problem with it. The engine does
not burn oil and is as peppy as when it was new. And economical too.
Its a 3.8 and is much easier on gas than the 3.0 Lexus engine. More
powerful too. It has a silky ride and is much quieter than the Lexus.

My previous car was a Chevrolet Celebrity which I gave away after 14
years of ownership and 370 000 miles on the odometer. Never had a
single power train problem. And the engine was still purring along
when I passed the car on to a relative. I have never had an engine or
transmission problem with any of my GM cars although I like to drive
them in the ground. I don't think my current Lexus will tough it out
like the GM products did. In fact I'm sure it won't. It just too
delicate. Nice car, but not rugged like a big GM. And costly to
repair.

Want good value? Test drive a Buick LeSabre. You'll be amazed. Buy
one, and with the money you save compared to a high end import, buy a
boat, or make a once in a lifetime trip around the world, or invest
the savings and retire earlier. And all the while enjoy a superb
automobile that is inexpensive to run and maintain...

A.Z.

No GM car I have ever had has been quieter than a Lexus. My ES300 is the
most quiet car I have ever had.


"A.Z" <achenier (AT) wincom (DOT) net> wrote

I second that. I hope I never have the misfortune of owning an
American-made vehicle.


"jt" <jeff (AT) sorrynoemail (DOT) com> wrote

Sorry, but I have to tell you that I hear the engine in the Lexus and
I don't in the Olds. I read on cartalk.com that the engine noise in
the Lexus es300 is "engineered in", probably to make it sound like a
European car.

Whether it is there by design or not, it is there. My 94 Olds is
quieter than my 93 Lexus. There is no getting around that.






"jt" <jeff (AT) sorrynoemail (DOT) com> wrote

Some of us older folks on here gave up on American cars a long time ago because
they were so bad as to be intolerable. The last Olds I had was in the shop
about 90 days in three years of ownership and only had about 60,000 mile on it
when I had to give it away to get rid of it. And I bought it because I heard
all the simple minded idiots braying about how good the American cars had
become !!!!!! Sorry, folks, but American cars just don't hold up and require
constant repair. Wish it weren't so, but ...

There are isolated exceptions to that rule, but I agree with you, the
statistics are not good for American cars. It's just a product of American
business, which is only focused on how they can get this quarter's numbers
to balance, not on how to compete for years down the road. That's why
American companies are sending all the computer jobs to India right now.
That helps their bottom line, but look at what it's doing to America. All
about greed and self-interest, which are the cornerstones of my disdain for
American companies.


"MCBRUE" <mcbrue (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote

Sorry old fellow, but you are wrong. GM has gotten better and the J.D. Power
numbers show it. I'm looking at page 99 of the J.D. Power Car Guide that
came with my Smart Money this month. There is a table that lists problems
per 100 vehicles for the first three years of ownership. Not going to go
over the whole list, but the brands better than the industry average include
(from the best on down) Lexus (who else?), Infiniti, BUICK, Porsche, Acura,
Toyota, CADILLAC, LINCOLN, Honda, MERCURY, Jaguar, Saab, BMW, Subaru,
Nissan, GMC, CHEVROLET, and SATURN.

Continuing with below average we have OLDS, Mazda, PONTIAC, CHRYSLER, FORD,
PLYMOUTH, DODGE, Audi, Mercedes-Benz, JEEP, Volvo, Mitsubishi, Hyundai,
Isuzu, Volkswagen, Suzuki, Daewoo, Land Rover, and (finally) Kia.

Note that there are seven U.S. brands in the better than average category,
mostly GM one with Buick way up at no. 3 and better than Acura/Honda and
Nissan.

Notable in the sub-average group are M-B, Audi, VW, all the Chrysler name
plates as well as three Japanese lines Mazda, Mitsubishi, and Isuzu. Olds
and Pontiac are slightly below average.

In point of fact, the GM brands do very, very well (Buick and Cadillac) to
OK (Olds and Pontiac). In other words, some GM brands are very competitive,
even with the big Japanese brands.

The interesting thing is how bad M-B and the other German brands (except BMW
which is fairly good) have gotten. And how uniformly bad Chrysler is, but
still better than the Germans.

The reality is that many U.S. brands are quite good to excellent.

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"MCBRUE" <mcbrue (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote