On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:37:11 -0600, "Kikune Mikutamo"
<munged (AT) doesntexist (DOT) org> wrote:

The IS-F, in dealerships in early '08, will cost about the same as an
M3, be about the same size, and have about 70 more horsepower.

On May 8, 5:25 am, DaveW <yzfr... (AT) yahooooo (DOT) com> wrote:
The BMW M3 has 420 hp. That would mean the IS-F would have 490 hp. I
heard Lexus say power would be over 400 but I haven't heard anyone say
whether it would be 490.

On 7 May 2007 22:43:10 -0700, norak <k.norak (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

An M3 has 333 hp.

"DaveW" <yzfr1ny (AT) yahoooo (DOT) com> wrote

In the "future vehicles" section at bmwusa.com, BMW says that the new M3
will have 420 HP.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On May 8, 11:34 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
2008 Corvette will have a 430 HP engine standard. Weighs a bit less
than those sedans, too. Corvette's not a luxury car? Well, if Dave can
tell me the Lexus LS is a driver's car, I can call the 'Vette a luxury
car, OK?

On 10 May 2007 21:08:24 -0700, ACAR <getoutanpush (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

First, I never said that.

Second, you can call a head of lettuce a kumquat for all I care, that
won't mean the rest of the world will have to abide by your rules.
Whatever arbitrary standards you've decided make a car a "driver's
car", they're yours, not mine.

"ACAR" <getoutanpush (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:
[snip ...]
Yup, sounds good to me ...

DaveW: so I guess you don't have a Lexus you'd stack up
against an M3 *right now*, do you?

We're not talking "woulda coulda shoulda" here, or what might be
available, depending if said Lexus really does come with that much HP,
and I suppose depending if the M3 doesn't change, and depending if
the Lexus isn't "portly" and hampered by excessive weight added by
the need for more coddling and comfort ...

Going out on a limb here, I'd say an early 70s Datsun 510 was more
of a "driver's car" than most any Lexus so far ... =8^o
Kumquat, indeed.

--
Kikune M

On Fri, 11 May 2007 21:32:02 -0600, "Kikune Mikutamo"
<munged (AT) doesntexist (DOT) org> wrote:

"Stack up against"? That entirely depends on personal preference,
doesn't it?

It's a matter of taste. I'd much rather drive my GS430 than an M3.
Otherwise, I'd have bought an M3.

Comfort is a positive attribute to me.

You're way out on that limb. This whole concept of "driver's car" is a
little fuzzy to me - is it more desirable to have a harsher
suspension, hard seats and more noise in everyday traffic conditions?
I don't race on public streets, and like most M3 owners, my car will
never see a racetrack.

"DaveW" <yzfr1ny (AT) yahoooo (DOT) com> wrote in message
I agree, everyone has their own tastes, likes and dislikes.

Hmmm, so a "driver's car" equates to racing on public streets?
I suspect many of those who prefer a "driver's car" want a car
that communicates what it's doing, and one that is dependably
responsive to their input.

I think your statement about a "driver's car" concept being fuzzy
is a bit disingenuous, though. You know what we're talking about,
and you know, however good your Lexus is, that it doesn't fit the bill
in that respect. If those attributes don't matter much to you, fine.
Just don't pretend that there's something wrong with people who do
appreciate them, or that your vehicle is superior. It isn't.

How's this: a driver's car is fun to drive, for those who enjoy that sort of
thing?

For others, we have Buicks ...




And Lexus ...





Sorry, Buick owners, that was unfair.

Ha ha.