1998 Lexus GS. At 30K miles the car was picked up by the selling Lexus dealer for service. The
dealer was to have among other things, flush the brake fluid. Upon return I found that the brake
pedal, when hard pressed with the engine running, would go to the floor, hard enough to bind a
piece of paper between it and the floor stop. I can not say that this was not the case before the
car was returned for this service. The car was returned to the dealer at his expense on a flat
bed. The dealer stated that they found nothing wrong as this was normal. Upon further
investigation I found that the brake pedal may indeed go down to a maximum of 1/2" above the floor
when hard pressed with the auto running as per the service manual. There should never be less than
1/2" between the pedal and the stop. I set about flushing the brake system myself and was able,
after using most of a quart of Lexus fluid get the system to just meet the above spec. While we
like the car I find Lexus has a major problem with being open and truthful. We also had the cold
start noise, sounds like a rod bearing going, problem which Lexus, both multiple dealers & the US
distributer stonewalled and lied to us as to it being normal for that engine, valve lifter noise,
or being unable to duplicate. I later found that the noise may be caused by the exhaust manifolds.
Being the engine hasn't blown after 60+k miles and being above 130 mph on a few occasions I believe
that it can't be a rod problem. So much for my ranting, I suggest that you consult the Lexus
service manuals as to what are the true specifications are.

On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:34:53 -0600, "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn> wrote:
*****************
Santose for PRESIDENT PLEASE Soon
While there is something left to save.

Thank You kgsAT (AT) msbx (DOT) net

To reply to this email please remove the AT
after the kgs in the reply to address as shown above.

Should have gone up and down the strip with the service mgr behind the
wheel. If they were going to go out they would if not then Yes it was
air in the line or what ever and it was fix. You did not say if you were
at the dealer when they unloaded for the flatbed or not. If the brakes
were bad when you parked the car they should still have been bad when
they unloaded the car off the flatbed.

OK - I'm convinced! No more Lexi in this family!!!

"mcbrue" <mcbrue (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote

Ah Hell, they're overpriced and overrated anyway! Just kidding. :-)

On a serious note though, I do feel for the original poster because it
sounds as though he's sort of stuck between a rock and hard place. Sometimes
automobile issues can be a major drain on a person. You wouldn't believe
what all I went through with a 2002 model SUV a few years back. Too long of
a story to tell.

Ron M.

"Ron M." <nobody (AT) nowhere (DOT) net> wrote

This is the same story repeated hundreds of times by all ES owners during
the past 4 years who have complained about the transmission problem. Don't
rag on the dealer, it's not his policy. It's Lexus. And my family is done
with Lexus too.

You haven't even mentioned the transmission lag problem in their ECU
programming/design in the ES and RX series vehicles. That's the "feature"
of my 2002 ES300 that is ending my relationship with Lexus. After 3 tries,
they still haven't produced an adequate fix. Steeeee-rike threeeeee!!!!!



"2sw" <willysworld (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote

Reminds me of the time a friend bought a new Supercharged T-Bird. The engine
had an intermittent knock. The dealership wouldn't do anything because they
couldn't hear the knock. He took the car out on a back road and ran it
against the RPM limiter for a couple of miles. The knock was REALLY evident
then but he didn't stop there. He said "I wanted to make sure they got me a
new engine and not just fixed the one in the car" so he ran it hard until it
exploded.
What you are experiencing is a safety issue. I would make a point of getting
the service writers and service managers name and documenting the times and
dates of your discussion with them. Explain to them that if anything
happened while being forced to drive a car with bad brakes, they would be
named PERSONALLY in the law suit.
Good Luck


"2sw" <willysworld (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote

The unasked question: did your car move actually move forward at all?
Perhaps you were stressed out about how much money you lost in Vegas
and were venting your frustrations subconciously by pressing your brake
foot down. Kind've like when you're a passenger and the person who's
driving doesn't seem like they're going to stop in time; you
subconciously push your left foot down on the non-existent right side
brake pedal.


No brakes as in the "car began to move forward-again"?

Next time when the pedal sinks to the floor, try moving to a safe
location, try to duplicate the condition, transfer your left foot onto
the brake pedal while holding it down to the floor, then try pressing
progressively harder on the accelerator with your right foot to see if
your brakes will hold the car?

Any dealer should use (or quickly acquire) some people skills here. I
checked with a Lexus engineer and confirmed that all brake pedals do sink
slightly while at rest. However, I my opinion, any dealer should recognize
that you don't feel safe, and offer to replace the master cylinder under
warranty. I know the issue is that head office may reject the warranty
claim and the dealer then gets stuck with the bill - and that is likely the
primary problem with the dealer. I would try another dealer and work with
them -- in the dealer's eyes, they should see this is a cheaper fix than a)
losing a Lexus customer for life or b) having to force Lexus to buy back the
vehicle under the lemon law.

If that doesn't work, dribble a little brake fluid onto the underside of the
master cylinder and remove a few teaspoons from the reservoir and then drive
it in to the dealer with the check engine light on.


"2sw" <willysworld (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote

Since when is it normal for ANY car to have the brake pedal sink to the
floor ????? That Lexus engineer is probably just a shill for the
undertaker down the street.