Is it because you think it's a status symbol and therefore overlook
its lackluster quality?

Since when did MB quality get so bad and why?

As a prospective MB buyer I would like to know.

Figaro

General information is that since 2004, it has been in general decline in
reliability. Majority of the problem is usually electronics and latest one
is transmission issues and the 4 matics.

They produced too many models and configurations is why it got into trouble.
They stuffed too many electronics to control simple things.

My advice is if you want to buy new MB, buy as simple as possible.... forget
4Matic when you use or can use snow tires Forget the built in GPS if you
don't mind easier Garmin GPS. But do buy basic luxury such as HID headlight,
heated seat... etc.

Same goes for the engine, if you can stick with 6 cylinders or diesel, go
for it... the 8 and 12 are more problematic.

Above all, always buy extended warranty, because it is in your favor for
major problem cropping up on you after your standard warranty expired.

I gather (from an MB garage/workshop here in London) that particular models
were affected and that the problems have been solved.

1st generation A Class, South African produced C Class. Early M Class...

My 2001 CLK has been fine.

Current A Class fine. B Class never had a problem.

Am interested to hear if there are contrary opinions.

I also agree that it is wise to keep it simple, but I suspect that applies
to all cars.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---
"Tiger" <tiger0002 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

On Oct 1, 6:17*am, Figaro <ponsell... (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:
My 2008 ML350 has been completely reliable. I owned 3 MBs before
(2000 E320, 2003 CLK320, and 2006 E350), and they did have problems,
but my latest one has not. J D Power confirms quality is improving,
as does Consumer Reports (over half MB models are now recommended).

It has been my understanding that MB hit its lowest ebb around
2003-04. The reasons for the poverty of the quality are manifold. They
wanted to sell high volume for what had always been a smaller luxury
only player. The mechanical engineering in all of their products went
through total reinvention. The electrically driven luxury equipment
increased in number by multiples as all car companies started to
compete on content. It put a great burden on the engineering
departments, and the semi-robotic manufacturing system they use lends
itself to poorer quality control. The port of Baltimore I know now
runs dozens and dozens more checks than they did in even five years
ago to make sure that they check every possible factory error before
the car is delivered to the dealer.

In my opinion, it is the way that Mercedes decided to address the
increasing demands for content in the cars, which was to add hard
wired electrical equipment. That lead to multiple computer systems,
and strained the electrical system. Just as another way of looking at
it, GM has as much functionality that it offers outside of the car in
its satellite fed Onstar system. That choice allowed them to simplify
their cars much more than any of the Germans.

I also agree that Mercedes quality is coming up since they have
reengineered those things that didn't work, and dropped those features
that couldn't be reliably engineered like the Electronic Brake Force
distribution they used on some early this decade SLs and AMGs.

Not necessarily or depends what you mean.

Mercs -- C & E Class -- have been in the Top-5-selling cars in Germany for
years. Not sure this year, haven't checked.

Even 20 years ago the W123 200D sold extremely well to business (incl taxi
companies, of corse) because it was reliable and very economical (incl low
depreciation rates).

You never see the smaller-engined models in the US, from what I can make
out.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---
"Howard" <how82 (AT) juno (DOT) com> wrote

for what had always been a smaller luxury only player.
[...]

On Oct 1, 5:17*am, Figaro <ponsell... (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

If you are aware of this why do you keep looking at MB?
I'm very disappointed with german car quality in general!
A lexus LS460 will blow away just about any german luxury car.
I've seen several comparisons with the LS460 vs the S class.
Several journalists say the Lexus is superior and for about half the
price.

Have you seen the Lexus LS460? It truly is amazing AND RELIABLE!!!!

Good luck,

Oskar

The North American Market is still the major volume market for the
world. If you want to sell volume, then you have to sell more cars in
North America. The fact that 190D cars with roll up windows have sold
well in Germany has nothing to do with sales volume globally and since
the German market is and has been fully saturated, there can be no
gains there. I have seen basement level Mercedeses sold in North
Africa and some other parts of the world as taxis, however they do not
sell in other parts of Europe, England, North America or Asia. As much
as Mercedes has previously wanted to sell lower priced volume product,
they were entirely unsuccessful anywhere outside of Germany in any
volumes that mattered. The current C Class is of course successful in
doing so for the past ten years, and the sales of their higher end
vehicles went up with the debt bubble. The Mercedes Company today, its
mission and market position is very different than it was 20 years ago
when it sold only to the wealthy.

I disagree that particular factories in either North America or South
Africa are responsible for the "bad cars". Fundementally, it is an
engineering and production method issue more than individual
manufacturing mistakes, although those are a problem too. Actually my
mother-in-law's 2002 MY AMG CLK, had every type of problem. The
electronic braking still doesn't work reliably and never will due to
bad engineering, the electronic starting system failed from cheap
manufacturing quality at a vendor, the engine had to be completely
rebuilt (at 2,500 miles) due to manufacturing error at AMG. The other
ancillary break downs have been more normal problems, but to say that
because the car had been made in Germany means that it is better than
cars made elsewhere is belied by the record of this German built
Mercedes.

To me the problems at Mercedes Benz are systemic from ownership,
straight through management to manufacturing and finally to the dealer
network which has been expanded and pressed for higher sales volumes.
At no point in the chain is there to be found the luxury ownership
experience that one had in buying the car from 1970 to 1990. The
company is engaged in brand debasement, and the quality of the cars
has followed the path set by that management strategy. That's how I
see it.

On Oct 2, 11:44*am, "Dori A Schmetterling" <nob... (AT) spam (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

On Oct 3, 8:52*pm, "pheoni... (AT) gmail (DOT) com" <pheoni... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
In what respect? Not power. Not handling. Not braking. Not
styling. Not acceleration.

And who would those journalists be?

Also rather bland.

pheonix1t (AT) gmail (DOT) com wrote:

That's the whole point of status symbols. They're expensive and
inefficient, but the fact that you can afford that gives you status.

X.