Rename of his newsgroup

#51

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 21:05:34 -0000, "Steve68s"
<steve68(remove)@btinternet.com> wrote:

Quote:

can we not rename this group to alt.autos.classic-mini?
or just create a new one and use it instead?

This is completely unnecessary and will not solve anything. The trolls
will only start claiming that their fat BMW hatchbacks are already
'classics' as well. (As if?)

It is very clear from the charter that this newsgroup is for real
Minis and not the BMW things. Might I suggest that the simplest
solution is to kill-file the persistent trolls and get back to talking
about our enthusiasm for the real thing. (And yes, I know they will
keep morphing, but then we can simply kill-file them again.)

If you are going to be put off or upset by the little wars which are
necessary from time to time to defend even long-established and
successful newsgroups like this from the barbarian hoardes, then
perhaps usenet is not for you.

Regards, David Betts
davidb (AT) minilist (DOT) org
The Mini Gallery:
http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334

#52

You folks in the colonies are easily upset, nevertheless I must politely
refer you to the correct newsgroup for your , "Hell to the Queen" should
really be posted to alt.gossip.royalty or alt.talk.royalty. This is a
newsgroup for the Mini.

PS

You will find that the Queen has German ancestry just like the BINI.

"Mark" <redbriar (AT) nvbell (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:

Tim wrote:

.....but then just quietly I also happen to dislike most
Americans I've meet

Well bip bip and bloody toad stools...that's just down right rude.
Hell to the queen! I've never really cared much about the English, maybe
thats why I prefer the BMW version of the mini....

#53

This is all a little academic as it isn't possible to change a usenet NG's
name.

The Muffin Man

"Pedro" <peter.steckles (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

I have a classic Mini and have had a great deal of good advice from
this NG. I have also been very pissed off by the antics of a few.

As I see it, people accidentally stumble into this NG with genuine Qs
about their MINI, and they are immediately berated by one or two of the
Mini enthusiasts. This then winds up the other lot who use foul and
abusive language to defend their freedom to post wherever they like.
They even gloat that they do it just because they can.

To be fair, some offer suggestions on how to fix their MINI problems
and then politely point them to the MINI NG, but in some cases they are
dispatched with a degree of rudery.

Having a NG name change would be about clearly identifying that the NG
is for the proper Mini, not for the BMW MINI.

I didn't suggest this before as I thought that it would be technically
difficult - people having alt.autos.mini in their favourites etc, and
there would be those who didn't want to 'give in' to the bully boys,
and the views of those who said "Oi! No! We were 'ere first! Sod Off
BINI owners!"

Now it has been suggested then maybe its worth a debate.

Can I suggest that we keep it clean, to the point, and refrain from the
foul language which does nothing to improve the level of debate.

My final thought would be that this NG should not be for both. Its just
how we get there that should exercise our minds.

Right.

I'm off into the garage now. Lots to do.

Peter

#54

sorry sport Im not English, Im a Kiwi, from that little group of Islands in
the South Pacific who told the Yanky warmongers where they could stick their
Nuclear Ships LOL

"Mark" <redbriar (AT) nvbell (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:

Tim wrote:

.....but then just quietly I also happen to dislike most
Americans I've meet

Well bip bip and bloody toad stools...that's just down right rude.
Hell to the queen! I've never really cared much about the English, maybe
thats why I prefer the BMW version of the mini....

#55

nothing Knee Jerk about it. Its a personal opinion, and last time I looked
they were still allowed.

Line length? Busines cards? sorry all greek to me. You only gets what the
machine gives.

"David Betts" <davidb (AT) minilist (DOT) org> wrote

Quote:

On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 08:15:15 +1300, "Tim"
tim_lis(NOSPAM)@clear.net.nz> wrote:

Just to save me replying to everyone....

we have alt.mini & we have alt.new.mini do we not?

when you do a search for subjects on Ng's both come up, so theres a clear
difference.

I've noticed that the bulk of the MINI ie BMW hatch backs, posters are
from the US.... so maybe there is an issue with servers in the US?

for my 50 cents worth. alt.mini predates the hatch back, so Im happy for
it to stay as it is. 2nd if an owner of a hatchback posts in here and gets
flamed thats life, but you will actualy find that most of the regs here
will politely point out that this is for the mini and that there is
another NG that covers the MINI. I have to admit though that even after
they have been politley pointed in the correct direction often they will
continue to post here and often get beligerent/agressive by return....so
when this happens I have been known to unleash the "dogs of war".....but
then just quietly I also happen to dislike most Americans I've meet

MY only interest is in the Mini, I have no desire to discuss the MINI, nor
would I ever purchase one. There are far better cars on the market and
much better prices than the MINI.
so in reality your suggesting we change somthing that works perfectly
well, so long as posters take a moment or two to read the search results,
or as was suggested spend some time reading the messages prior to posting.

Good points tim, other than the knee-jerk ant-Americanism, which we
can do without. Also, grateful if you could do somethng about
re-setting your line lengths and deleting the business card please.
Text only, you know <grin). You will find some ISPs won't even
propogate your message with attachments.

Regards, David Betts
davidb (AT) minilist (DOT) org
The Mini Gallery:
http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334

#56

Quote:

Talk about ignorance, right in the charter it states mini cooper.

Remember that the charter was created before the MINI was ever sold, whether
in Europe or the US. As the charter has not been modified since inception to
include cars made by and branded MINI by BMW, common sense would surely
prevail and the charter would surely inform people that these cars are not
within the letter or spirit, and thus the scope of, said charter.

You are right that the charter does state Mini Coopers and Mini Cooper S's,
however with the knowledge of the above statement it would seem that the
charter refers to the cars so named before the creation of BMW's
MINI-branded vehicles. The vehicles about which discussion in this group
should revolve are, amongst the others mentioned, Mini Coopers and Mini
Cooper S's as built by or for Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti,
not those vehicles branded MINI Cooper or MINI Cooper S by BMW.

The charter doesn't mention the BMW MINI One or BMW MINI Diesel to either
include or exclude them. Discussion regarding the MINI One or MINI Diesel is
not in keeping with the charter, either by letter or by spirit. Thus,
posters to this group intimating discussion regarding these vehicles are
posting in the wrong newsgroup.

The charter covers:

Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Minis and variants [including
vans, estates and pickups]
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Mini Coopers
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Mini Cooper S's
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH Mokes
BMC Riley Elfs
BMC Wolseley Hornets
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Mini-based kit cars and
specials.

Quote:

It doesn't say all mini coopers excluding BMW.

Correct. That will mainly be because the vehicles branded by BMW as MINI
Cooper and MINI Cooper S had not been created at the time the charter was
created. This is not a chicken and egg situation. This is a perfectly linear
timeline.

Note also that the charter also doesn't exclude mini buses, minivans*, mini
skirts, mini discs, iPod minis or Mini Cheddars. Would you like people to
discuss those here as well?

Quote:

But I think that I get it now. This news group has two requirements. You
have to own an old broken mini

Your observations and the requirements you have derived from them would
disallow the majority of the posters to this group.

Not everyone who posts to the group has an old Mini. Not everyone who posts
to the group has a broken Mini. Not everyone who posts to the group owns
only one Mini, whether old, broken, both or neither.

As for "old", note that the vehicle branded MINI by BMW was released in
2001; first examples are more than 4 years old now. There have been
facelifts (or rather, arselifts) of the MINI range already, making the first
generation of vehicles branded MINI by BMW old in comparison to the same
models produced today. A car design more than 3 years old is old by modern
car terms - and yet BMW's design for vehicles they brand MINI is more than
6.

Oh dear. By your "logic", owners of 2001 vehicles branded MINI by BMW, which
have not had the handbrake or seat squabs replaced, meet your first derived
requirement - old and broken. A good way to circumvent the charter, it would
seem.

Quote:

and be a total ass-hole.

The charter makes no mention of whether posters to the group should or
should not be a bodily orifice, whether complete or partial. Does this mean
the charter allows or disallows complete or incomplete arseholes from
posting?

I feel sure you don't own an old broken Mini, and I'm sure you don't tend to
describe yourself as a bodily orifice. Your own observations and the
statements based thereon therefore preclude you from following your derived
requirements for posting to this newsgroup. I take it this means you will
not be posting again.

Quote:

I've never been in another news group with more one sided bigots.

I'm sure if you keep posting to usenet groups for long enough, you'll find
you attract many more.

Quote:

Good day.

Et vu.

erik.

* Note that there is no space between "mini" and "van", to distinguish
between:
- the American term for a class of vehicle which in the UK is typically
known as a people-carrier, MPV or other local term, and
- the Austin/Morris/BMC/BMH/Rover (as Austin Rover) Mini variant with two
seats, no rear side windows, twin opening rear doors and a load bay,
otherwise known as a "Mini Van".

#57

erik fishead wrote:

Quote:

common sense would surely
prevail and the charter would surely inform people that these cars are not
within the letter or spirit, and thus the scope of, said charter.

assumption,,,overruled!

Quote:

You are right that the charter does state Mini Coopers and Mini Cooper S's,

correct!

Quote:

The charter doesn't mention the BMW MINI One or BMW MINI Diesel to either
include or exclude them.

correct again!

Quote:

The charter covers:

Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Minis and variants [including
vans, estates and pickups]
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Mini Coopers
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Mini Cooper S's
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH Mokes
BMC Riley Elfs
BMC Wolseley Hornets
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Mini-based kit cars and
specials.

Wrong, it also states Mini Cooper and Mini Cooper S!

Quote:

It doesn't say all mini coopers excluding BMW.

Correct. That will mainly be because the vehicles branded by BMW as MINI
Cooper and MINI Cooper S had not been created at the time the charter was
created.

Not my problem!

Quote:

Note also that the charter also doesn't exclude mini buses, minivans*, mini
skirts, mini discs, iPod minis or Mini Cheddars. Would you like people to
discuss those here as well?

Great, the more, the merrier!

Quote:

But I think that I get it now. This news group has two requirements. You
have to own an old broken mini

Your observations and the requirements you have derived from them would
disallow the majority of the posters to this group.

Not everyone who posts to the group has an old Mini. Not everyone who posts
to the group has a broken Mini. Not everyone who posts to the group owns
only one Mini, whether old, broken, both or neither.

Thank you!

Quote:

As for "old", note that the vehicle branded MINI by BMW was released in
2001; first examples are more than 4 years old now. There have been
facelifts (or rather, arselifts) of the MINI range already, making the first
generation of vehicles branded MINI by BMW old in comparison to the same
models produced today. A car design more than 3 years old is old by modern
car terms - and yet BMW's design for vehicles they brand MINI is more than
6.

Oh dear. By your "logic", owners of 2001 vehicles branded MINI by BMW, which
have not had the handbrake or seat squabs replaced, meet your first derived
requirement - old and broken. A good way to circumvent the charter, it would
seem.

and be a total ass-hole.

The charter makes no mention of whether posters to the group should or
should not be a bodily orifice, whether complete or partial. Does this mean
the charter allows or disallows complete or incomplete arseholes from
posting?

Obviously not!

Quote:

I feel sure you don't own an old broken Mini

You would be wrong!

Quote:

I've never been in another news group with more one sided bigots.

I'm sure if you keep posting to usenet groups for long enough, you'll find
you attract many more.

Not in the last 20 years!

Quote:

Good day.

Adios!

#58

On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 13:51:29 +1300, "Tim"
<tim_lis(NOSPAM)@clear.net.nz> wrote:

Quote:

nothing Knee Jerk about it. Its a personal opinion, and last time I looked
they were still allowed.

If you want to sound like a prejudiced fool, that's up to you. Some of
the greatest Mini enthusiasts - including the founder of the this
newsgroup - are from the US of A.

Quote:

Line length? Busines cards? sorry all greek to me. You only gets what the
machine gives.

Well, you appear to have sorted the problems, don't you? All you have
to do now is learn not to top-post.

Regards, David Betts
davidb (AT) minilist (DOT) org
The Mini Gallery:
http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334

#59

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:59:52 GMT, "erik fishead"
<erikfishead (AT) oddfellow (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Quote:

Talk about ignorance, right in the charter it states mini cooper.

Remember that the charter was created before the MINI was ever sold, whether
in Europe or the US. As the charter has not been modified since inception to
include cars made by and branded MINI by BMW, common sense would surely
prevail and the charter would surely inform people that these cars are not
within the letter or spirit, and thus the scope of, said charter.

You are right that the charter does state Mini Coopers and Mini Cooper S's,
however with the knowledge of the above statement it would seem that the
charter refers to the cars so named before the creation of BMW's
MINI-branded vehicles. The vehicles about which discussion in this group
should revolve are, amongst the others mentioned, Mini Coopers and Mini
Cooper S's as built by or for Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti,
not those vehicles branded MINI Cooper or MINI Cooper S by BMW.

That is correct. Following extensive discussion here, it was decided
to create alt.autos.new-mini to host the BMW things rather than to
re-write the charter to include them here. Rocky Frisco, the founder
of this newsgroup and author of its charter, actually created the new
group himself.

Not sure what state the Google archives are in these days, but it
should all be on record somewhere.

Regards, David Betts
davidb (AT) minilist (DOT) org
The Mini Gallery:
http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334

#60

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 06:23:53 GMT, Mark <redbriar (AT) nvbell (DOT) net> wrote:

Quote:

erik fishead wrote:

The charter covers:

Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Minis and variants [including
vans, estates and pickups]
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Mini Coopers
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Mini Cooper S's
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH Mokes
BMC Riley Elfs
BMC Wolseley Hornets
Austin, Morris, BMC, BMH, Rover and Innocenti Mini-based kit cars and
specials.

Wrong, it also states Mini Cooper and Mini Cooper S!

This is where your lack of comprehension appears to let you down. Go
back and read it again.

Regards, David Betts
davidb (AT) minilist (DOT) org
The Mini Gallery:
http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334

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Rename of his newsgroup

Mini Discussion of English Mini automobiles (alt.autos.mini)

Re: Rename of his newsgroup - 12-04-2005 , 03:01 AM

Re: Rename of his newsgroup - 12-04-2005 , 11:09 AM

Re: Rename of his newsgroup - 12-05-2005 , 11:31 AM

Re: Rename of his newsgroup - 12-06-2005 , 07:48 PM

Re: Rename of his newsgroup - 12-06-2005 , 07:51 PM

Re: Rename of his newsgroup - 12-06-2005 , 07:59 PM

Re: Rename of his newsgroup - 12-07-2005 , 01:23 AM

Re: Rename of his newsgroup - 12-07-2005 , 02:48 AM

Re: Rename of his newsgroup - 12-07-2005 , 02:55 AM

Re: Rename of his newsgroup - 12-07-2005 , 03:00 AM