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modern auto boxes
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#41
 
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Re: modern auto boxes -
11-04-2003
, 04:36 AM
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In article <3fa6b7d8_1 (AT) mk-nntp-2 (DOT) news.uk.tiscali.com>, Huw <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: It is undoubtedly the tc that slips, but what allows a 10% slip when the lock up clutch must lock 100%, is where the clever engineering lies. Could I ask how you're so sure it does 'slip' when the TC lock is engaged? -- |
Maybe in Auto Technology magazine but more likely either in the
official M-class book or on-line. I read so many of these things that
I only remember the juicy bits long term.
Huw
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#42
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Could I ask how you're so sure it does 'slip' when the TC lock is engaged? |
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At some point I have read a technical review of the transmission. Maybe in Auto Technology magazine but more likely either in the official M-class book or on-line. I read so many of these things that I only remember the juicy bits long term. |
say it was either wrong or you mis-read it. ;-)
--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *
Dave Plowman dave.sound (AT) argonet (DOT) co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
#43
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"Ben Organ" <junk (AT) organisers (DOT) freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:bo5gkp$9en$1 (AT) news8 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk... "Dave Plowman" <dave.sound (AT) argonet (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:4c4b81f901dave.sound (AT) argonet (DOT) co.uk... In article <bo51au$9ds$1 (AT) newsreaderm1 (DOT) core.theplanet.net>, Tim S Kemp <news (AT) timkemp (DOT) karoo.co.uk> wrote: It's there to provide engine braking when travelling downhill - Mitsubishi InvecsII boxes do it as well, I find it sensible. It's fine on my E39 too, although a bit disconcerting when it happens first. If on a hill with a steepening incline, you lift off, and if and when the car starts speeding up it will change down. It's a worry when the gearbox starts thinking. ;-) A tap on the brakes on a hill can make it do it also, while a whiff of throttle will make it change up again. I can see some not liking it. If you want a control get a manual!!!!!!! No amount of engineering will be able to better human knowledge, reactions and actions Why do all the WRC Rally teams use sequential boxes operated by hydraulics, with a gearstick as a backup to the hydraulic paddle change then Ben? |
sequential boxes operated by hydraulics are gonna give a faster change than
doing it maunally. What I was meaning is the autobox's decisions as to when
to change up and down can never touch human judgement!
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#44
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In article <bo5gkp$9en$1 (AT) news8 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>, Ben Organ <junk (AT) organisers (DOT) freeserve.co.uk> wrote: No amount of engineering will be able to better human knowledge, reactions and actions |
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Perhaps you've never seen an old car where both the ignition timing and mixture were *completely* under the control of the driver? Or driven a car without ABS? Traction control? Even the battery charging system used to be manual - set it wrong and you had either a flat or boiled dry battery. |
yes its more of a challenge but in many cases human judgement is far better
than judgement of computers.
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While a well driven manual might better a good auto, most drivers aren't anything like that skilled - apart from in their head. -- *Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs. Dave Plowman dave.sound (AT) argonet (DOT) co.uk London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
#45
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Ben Organ wrote: "Dave Plowman" <dave.sound (AT) argonet (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:4c4b81f901dave.sound (AT) argonet (DOT) co.uk... In article <bo51au$9ds$1 (AT) newsreaderm1 (DOT) core.theplanet.net>, Tim S Kemp <news (AT) timkemp (DOT) karoo.co.uk> wrote: It's there to provide engine braking when travelling downhill - Mitsubishi InvecsII boxes do it as well, I find it sensible. It's fine on my E39 too, although a bit disconcerting when it happens first. If on a hill with a steepening incline, you lift off, and if and when the car starts speeding up it will change down. It's a worry when the gearbox starts thinking. ;-) A tap on the brakes on a hill can make it do it also, while a whiff of throttle will make it change up again. I can see some not liking it. If you want a control get a manual!!!!!!! No amount of engineering will be able to better human knowledge, reactions and actions And no manual will ever equal the convenience and comfort of a good automatic. Just why do you have this obsession with 'control'. I've now driven thousands and thousands of miles in automatics and wouldn't go back to a manual if you paid me! |
inappropriate moments whereas if they were in control they wouldnt have
changed and merely pointing out the inherent weaknesses in the auto system.
I'm not saying auto boxes are worse, I've driven an auto and yes its far
more comfortable and smooth and easier to drive than a manual and if in the
future I may have an auto car. My point was merely to say the reasons autos
change when you dont want them to is that they dont have the judgement of
humans in respect of controlling _when_ to change gear - which some people
like and some people dont - its a personal thing!
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Kev |
#46
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In article <3fa774d2_1 (AT) mk-nntp-2 (DOT) news.uk.tiscali.com>, Huw <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: Could I ask how you're so sure it does 'slip' when the TC lock is engaged? At some point I have read a technical review of the transmission. Maybe in Auto Technology magazine but more likely either in the official M-class book or on-line. I read so many of these things that I only remember the juicy bits long term. Well, since it makes no sense whatsoever to me, and my ZF doesn't, I'd say it was either wrong or you mis-read it. ;-) |
two lock-up modes; partial and full lock-up available is every one of
its seven gears. Don't ask me where I found that gem either ;-)
Huw
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#47
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No, I don't think so. In fact the latest seven speed Mercedes auto has two lock-up modes; partial and full lock-up available is every one of its seven gears. Don't ask me where I found that gem either ;-) |
starting off. But as I read it, it locks up fully in the top gears.
--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton
Dave Plowman dave.sound (AT) argonet (DOT) co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
#48
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In article <3fa9683f_1 (AT) mk-nntp-2 (DOT) news.uk.tiscali.com>, Huw <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: No, I don't think so. In fact the latest seven speed Mercedes auto has two lock-up modes; partial and full lock-up available is every one of its seven gears. Don't ask me where I found that gem either ;-) Yes; it uses its TC mainly to smooth out gearchanges and of course for starting off. But as I read it, it locks up fully in the top gears. |
accurately a partially slipping tc] mode.
IIRC these Mercedes tc's are known as, something like, 'Hydrodynamic'.
The amount of totally useless information I carry around amazes even
me LOL. Mind you, I am the first to admit that it might be a load of
orbs......... the hydrodynamic bit that is.
Huw
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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#49
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I was commenting about people saying about their autos changing gear at inappropriate moments whereas if they were in control they wouldnt have changed and merely pointing out the inherent weaknesses in the auto system. |
inappropriate moments. My last three cars have been autos and, to be honest,
I barely can tell when they actually change gear - other than seeing the
rev-counter needle drop down. Because there is no 'disconnection' in the
drive train when an auto changes gear - what does it matter when it does so?
I'm not saying auto boxes are worse, I've driven an auto
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and yes its far more comfortable and smooth and easier to drive than a manual and if in the future I may have an auto car. My point was merely to say the reasons autos change when you dont want them to is that they dont have the judgement of humans in respect of controlling _when_ to change gear - which some people like and some people dont - its a personal thing! |
for most of my driving life and as a traffic officer. I now drive autos and
never ever feel; "I wish the car hadn't changed gear just then". I really
couldn't give a toss about having control of when the car changes gear - I'm
more than happy to let the auto box make its' own decisions for me! One
thing I will say and that is autos are superb for caravan towing!
Kev
#50
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Ben Organ wrote: I was commenting about people saying about their autos changing gear at inappropriate moments whereas if they were in control they wouldnt have changed and merely pointing out the inherent weaknesses in the auto system. I'm not sure what they mean when they refer to their autos changing gear at inappropriate moments. My last three cars have been autos and, to be honest, I barely can tell when they actually change gear - other than seeing the rev-counter needle drop down. Because there is no 'disconnection' in the drive train when an auto changes gear - what does it matter when it does so? I'm not saying auto boxes are worse, I've driven an auto and yes its far more comfortable and smooth and easier to drive than a manual and if in the future I may have an auto car. My point was merely to say the reasons autos change when you dont want them to is that they dont have the judgement of humans in respect of controlling _when_ to change gear - which some people like and some people dont - its a personal thing! I accept what you say about it being a personal thing. I've driven manuals for most of my driving life and as a traffic officer. I now drive autos and never ever feel; "I wish the car hadn't changed gear just then". I really couldn't give a toss about having control of when the car changes gear - I'm more than happy to let the auto box make its' own decisions for me! One thing I will say and that is autos are superb for caravan towing! |
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Kev |
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