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Dave D on Windtunnel regarding DEj and the 3
Nascar (Moderated) NASCAR and Stockcar Racing. (Moderated) (rec.autos.sport.nascar.moderated)
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#31
 
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Re: Dave D on Windtunnel regarding DEj and the 3 -
05-18-2007
, 03:36 PM
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It seems strange to me that people always want to cast Jack Roush in a bad light. He's a racer first, and a businessman second, much like Richard Childress or Robert Yates, yet he's looked upon like the second coming of Satan, like he's on some mission to ruin stock car racing for everyone. I don't get it. |
It started with his whining and crying when MM had his points docked after
winning at Richmond years ago due to a manifold/carb mounting issue. It did
not matter that it wasn't caught before. It was caught then.
It continued with his false accusations about JG running with an illegal
substance on his tires.
It continued with his never-ending complaints about NASCAR being out to get
him.
It continued....
Oh, never mind.
Larry
#32
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"armpit" wrote ... If that's what you think, then you need to educate yourself about Roush Racing, as does Nancy. Roush policy is that each team receives the same equipment. Chassis, engines, etc. There is no pecking order, with one exception. If there are not enough pieces for all the teams, then teams higher in the point standings have priority. Hendrick Motorsports, however, DOES have a history of shifting resources to preferred teams. This practice dates all the way back to when DW drove for them, and Hendrick was taking cars, engines, etc. from Geoff Bodine & Gary Nelson in an attempt to make DW a winner for him. That's pretty much the hand made days you refer to, when there *was* better equipment of a probable significant worth. Not today, IMO. |
car in the stable better than another.
These guys all have to have very sensitive "butt-o-meters", and an
engine with a torque curve a tiny bit "flatter" than average feels
better to some drivers, while others like a little more of a "peak" in
the curve".
I dunno--maybe it's not that one car or engine is "better" than the
other, but one fits a particular driver better.
take care,
Scott
#33
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armpit wrote: It seems strange to me that people always want to cast Jack Roush in a bad light. He's a racer first, and a businessman second, much like Richard Childress or Robert Yates, yet he's looked upon like the second coming of Satan, like he's on some mission to ruin stock car racing for everyone. I don't get it. For me it is about his attitude. It started with his whining and crying when MM had his points docked after winning at Richmond years ago due to a manifold/carb mounting issue. It did not matter that it wasn't caught before. It was caught then. |
performance enhancing. It ultimately cost them the championship that year.
I've never heard anyone that was unbiased and familiar with the situation
that considered the penalty fair. Jack has every right to complain about
that shaft-job from Nascar.
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It continued with his false accusations about JG running with an illegal substance on his tires. |
somebody that knew somebody at HMS that turned out to be bogus.
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It continued with his never-ending complaints about NASCAR being out to get him. |
size of his operation? Why did Nascar set the limit at 4? And why didn't
they set that limit years ago before Jack had 5 teams?
I can understand why he feels like he's getting screwed when the rule only
affects him. It's because he *is* getting screwed.
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It continued.... Oh, never mind. Larry |
#34
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It seems strange to me that people always want to cast Jack Roush in a bad light. He's a racer first, and a businessman second, much like Richard Childress or Robert Yates, yet he's looked upon like the second coming of Satan, like he's on some mission to ruin stock car racing for everyone. I don't get it. |
Nothing like Childress at all.
Dan
****************************************
I'm going to stop putting things off.
Starting tomorrow.
#35
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In article "armpit" <armarmpitpit (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote: It seems strange to me that people always want to cast Jack Roush in a bad light. He's a racer first, and a businessman second, much like Richard Childress or Robert Yates, yet he's looked upon like the second coming of Satan, like he's on some mission to ruin stock car racing for everyone. I don't get it. He's a cut throat business man first, and a racer second... Nothing like Childress at all. |
Jack Roush's whole life has revolved around racing. He's a racer, regardless
of your personal opinion of him. And he's a hell of a lot like Childress. Or
have you forgotten how much complaining Richard used to do when he felt his
team was getting the short end? Both he and Earnhardt used to cry like
babies when they felt that they were at a disadvantage.
But I guess that's OK, since it was the great DE and his fantastic car owner
doing the complaining. But if Roush complains, he's just a whiner. He's
"Evil Jack".
I can only imagine how loudly Childress & Earnhardt would be whining now if
they had to face the situation that Roush faces now, with the rival brand
winning 10 of the first 11 races.
#36
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What would be wrong with the Junior Johnson coming back as an owner and taking Jr. |
that he has no interest in running IROC cars. He left because in
the first place because NASCAR was putting too many restrictions on
what he could do to the engine.
John
#37
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and I mis-typed when I said "I always struggle" I meant in the last 5 or 8 years. Before that the critical parts were essentially hand made or hand finished by the guy that "had the touch" and making 2 alike was impossible - similar was doable, but not identical ... then there *was* good and bad stuff. But the mantra of nascar shops about 20 years ago, starting, I believe, with Kenny Weld and his shop, became "repeatability" and first precision CNC machining and then computerized modeling (CAD/CAM) replaced "that guy". |
10,000 identical cylinder heads. Have you ever watched a top
engine builder put the main bearings in a block? He might go
thru 40 sets, carefully measuring and inspecting them, to find
the 5 which are perfect, and carefully prep them - chamfer the
oil holes, scrub them with a scotchbrite pad to give the right
finish to hold oil, etc, etc...it takes ages, but when was the
last time you heard of a top team suffering a spun bearing?
Everything else is the same - it takes like 8 hours to put a
Ford 9" rear together, with all the time to de-burr and chamfer
parts, and put shims in to get the perfect lash (you coat the
gears with dye, put it together & spin it, and see where the
gears contact, then take it apart & change the shim, and do
it again, and again, until it's right). Getting it perfect
means the gear runs cool, and maybe saves a horsepower or two.
But the real difference in "better equipment" is in chassis
setup (and maybe gearing, altho NASCAR limits choices there
now-a-days). There's about a thousand choices you can make in
setup, between chassis adjustments, springs, shocks, and aero.
Which is right depends on the track, the weather, the tire
Goodyear chooses to show up with... The best teams do a ton
of testing, and have reams of notes to guide them on what's
likely to be right for any given track & date. And then they
show up at the track with a car that's right in the middle of
what they think they'll need, so there's plenty of adjustment.
It doesn't help to decide you need a half-inch more left
front wheel travel, when everything's already at the end of
it's adjustment.
John
(you're right about Kenny Weld, btw. Robert Yates was the
second guy to go into CNC machining heads).
#38
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I don't have a clue how Roush works, but I have read and heard the HMS assigns the engines in a manner that favors no one team, including those that lease from them. |
lease program are handled completely seperately from those used for
the 4 Hendrick teams. That started back in the day when Hendrick
provided engines to Gibbs, and Gordon was upset following one race
when he thought the engine sent to Gibbs had better power than his.
I have no idea how Hendrick divides engines between their 4 cars.
I suspect it's essentially random.
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I won't put anything past JR, and he has earned this disrespect, over the years, from many people. |
of his way to allocate specific ones to different drivers.
John
#39
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It seems strange to me that people always want to cast Jack Roush in a bad light. |
his drivers. You can look to Jeff Burton for some examples, altho
he's not the only one. But that's where a lot of the bad impression
people have of Roush has come from.
John
#40
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There's more to building a race car than being able to machine 10,000 identical cylinder heads. Have you ever watched a top engine builder put the main bearings in a block? He might go thru 40 sets, carefully measuring and inspecting them, to find the 5 which are perfect, and carefully prep them - chamfer the oil holes, scrub them with a scotchbrite pad to give the right finish to hold oil, etc, etc...it takes ages, but when was the last time you heard of a top team suffering a spun bearing? Everything else is the same - it takes like 8 hours to put a Ford 9" rear together, with all the time to de-burr and chamfer parts, and put shims in to get the perfect lash (you coat the gears with dye, put it together & spin it, and see where the gears contact, then take it apart & change the shim, and do it again, and again, until it's right). Getting it perfect means the gear runs cool, and maybe saves a horsepower or two. But the real difference in "better equipment" is in chassis setup (and maybe gearing, altho NASCAR limits choices there now-a-days). There's about a thousand choices you can make in setup, between chassis adjustments, springs, shocks, and aero. Which is right depends on the track, the weather, the tire Goodyear chooses to show up with... The best teams do a ton of testing, and have reams of notes to guide them on what's likely to be right for any given track & date. And then they show up at the track with a car that's right in the middle of what they think they'll need, so there's plenty of adjustment. It doesn't help to decide you need a half-inch more left front wheel travel, when everything's already at the end of it's adjustment. John (you're right about Kenny Weld, btw. Robert Yates was the second guy to go into CNC machining heads). |
teams. Sure, teams have better or worse equipment, from engines to machine
tools to test to simulation ...
But your examples of "better equipment" are all people related, better people,
not engines, chassis or parts. And doesn't each car have their own head engine
builder and head chassis builder who builds or specifies the engine or chassis
that fits *his* driver and his style (and the track, the weather, the tire ...)?
And I'd suspect that a good engine or chassis builder that puts together JG's
engine or chassis might not necessarily be able to get that level of perfect
under JJ or KyB or CM, if they're each looking for a different feel, but I don't
know that for a fact. I remember being told by Randy Dorton 10 or 12 ... hmmm
or 15 ... years ago that getting an extra 5 HP didn't necessarily make a car
faster if it made the handling bad and it could actually make it worse, that
communication between the engine and chassis people was critical to achieve the
right balance and take full advantage of the potential. (that was a really cool
and very fascinating lunch at CMS in the Speedway Club! Good afternoon Mr.
Dorton. Yes, Mr. Dorton. Right away, Mr. Dorton. Here's your table, Mr.
Dorton. Ice tea, Mr ... and there were Mercedes passenger cars driving on the
track that afternoon.)
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