good article from Dustin Long

#11

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:09:12 CST, "Mike Marlow"
<mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net> wrote:

Quote:

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in message
news:M4-dnTZiQKluMG3XnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com...

Some drivers are better than others at the plate races.
I'll never forget DE Sr. coming from 17th place with
four laps to go and winning. I watched every replay
they gave of that, trying to see how he did it. I don't
think it was an accident or just the luck of the draw,
no matter what his son says nowadays.

So - did Earnhardt just pull out and pass the pack to get up to the lead
from 17th? Getting from 17th to first and for that matter, from first to
last in four laps is nothing on a plate track. It happens every race. It
doesn't even take four laps. That's the nature of the draft.

See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4amZ9VSA9kY

#12

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:22:17 CST, Jed
<zyzygy@plenipôtentiary.com.invalid> wrote:

Quote:

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:09:12 CST, "Mike Marlow"
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net> wrote:

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in message
news:M4-dnTZiQKluMG3XnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com...

Some drivers are better than others at the plate races.
I'll never forget DE Sr. coming from 17th place with
four laps to go and winning. I watched every replay
they gave of that, trying to see how he did it. I don't
think it was an accident or just the luck of the draw,
no matter what his son says nowadays.

So - did Earnhardt just pull out and pass the pack to get up to the lead
from 17th? Getting from 17th to first and for that matter, from first to
last in four laps is nothing on a plate track. It happens every race. It
doesn't even take four laps. That's the nature of the draft.

See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4amZ9VSA9kY

That was a heck of a run......... 4 and 5 wide and Earnhardt came
screaming up the middle... Had him a couple of helpers - Kenny Wallace
and Joe Nemicheck..... That was racing!!

Tom S.

#13

"Jed" <zyzygy@plenip"=?unknown-8bit?B?9A==?="tentiary.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:qam1f5hrmfim7hp0skanph0lhnmb2am74k (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...

Quote:

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:09:12 CST, "Mike Marlow"
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net> wrote:

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in message
news:M4-dnTZiQKluMG3XnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com...

Some drivers are better than others at the plate races.
I'll never forget DE Sr. coming from 17th place with
four laps to go and winning. I watched every replay
they gave of that, trying to see how he did it. I don't
think it was an accident or just the luck of the draw,
no matter what his son says nowadays.

So - did Earnhardt just pull out and pass the pack to get up to the lead
from 17th? Getting from 17th to first and for that matter, from first to
last in four laps is nothing on a plate track. It happens every race. It
doesn't even take four laps. That's the nature of the draft.

See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4amZ9VSA9kY

My question was meant to be rhetorical, but thanks for the link all the
same - it demonstrates what I was getting at.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net

#14

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:09:12 CST, "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net> wrote in
<303e6$4af0d42d$6215adae$28268 (AT) ALLTEL (DOT) NET>:

Quote:

So - did Earnhardt just pull out and pass the pack to get up to the lead
from 17th?

Nope. He worked his way forward, as I recall.

He must have tried different lines.

Quote:

Getting from 17th to first and for that matter, from first to
last in four laps is nothing on a plate track. It happens every race. It
doesn't even take four laps. That's the nature of the draft.

I suggest that Earnhardt made the right moves at the right
time and deserves credit for winning the race.

I don't believe that the results are random. Top teams and
top drivers tend to be "lucky" at the end.

And less skilled drivers (Cuzzin Carl!) tend to take themselves
out of the race when things get exciting.

JJ moving up from 36th to 6th was pretty cool. He played
his cards right and extended his lead. He could sit out
the next race and still be the points leader.

Marty
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#15

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:22:17 CST, Jed <zyzygy@plenipôtentiary.com.invalid> wrote in
<qam1f5hrmfim7hp0skanph0lhnmb2am74k (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>:

Quote:

See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4amZ9VSA9kY

Oh, man! I hardly breathed through that whole
thing.

"Mr. Restrictor Plate"--"10th win at Talladega."

Nothing but luck? Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Marty
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#16

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:34:11 CST, John McCoy <igopogo (AT) ix (DOT) netcom.com> wrote in <Xns9CB8D13681D4Apogosupernews (AT) 216 (DOT) 168.3.30>:

Quote:

And what did Earnhardt Sr say? "This ain't racing".

And where did he say it? In the winner's circule.

Quote:

When I went to night Bristol a few years ago, I had fun.
I'm glad I went and I see why folks enjoy it. But
when we got to the 13th caution in the Cup race (after
a full set of cautions in the Busch race the night
before), I began to get bored. Cautions are a lot more
fun at home, where I can surf away from the comfort of
my sofa.

I'll grant you that one. Too many caution laps is a problem
at any track. But that is (usually) the fault of the folk
running the race, not the drivers. Get rid of the bogus debris
cautions, and the 8-yellow-flag-laps-because-someone-spun-
without-hitting-anything cautions, and that problem is solved.

Not at Bristol the night I was there. Every caution was at
least a spin if not an outright wreck.

Marty
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#17

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote

Quote:

I suggest that Earnhardt made the right moves at the right
time and deserves credit for winning the race.

I would not disagree with that suggestion, but it is equally possible/common
that a skilled plate track driver (ala Jeff Gordon), can try all of the same
things but get no help, and drift back in the pack. Of course Earnhardt
deserves credit for winning the race, but the whole whoop-a-lap about him
coming up from 17th to win is hype - that's plate track racing.

Quote:

I don't believe that the results are random. Top teams and
top drivers tend to be "lucky" at the end.

Not random, but not a pure reflection of driver skill by any means. Again -
how many times have you seen Gordon get out and nobody go with him? Plate
racing is all about a partner. Earnhardt could never have made it up front
without someone pushing or pulling him.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net

#18

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in
news:udmdnfnSbcv0jGzXnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com:

Quote:

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:09:12 CST, "Mike Marlow"
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net> wrote in
303e6$4af0d42d$6215adae$28268 (AT) ALLTEL (DOT) NET>:

Getting from 17th to first and for that matter, from first to
last in four laps is nothing on a plate track. It happens every race.
It doesn't even take four laps. That's the nature of the draft.

I suggest that Earnhardt made the right moves at the right
time and deserves credit for winning the race.

Earnhardt was the first to realize that the changing shape of
the car had developed the side draft to be useable. Prior to
that, getting in the middle at Talladega was the fast route to
the back. So yes, Earnhardt deserves credit for the skill of
recognizing a new technique could be used.

Of course, NASCAR changed the car design, so that technique
doesn't work any longer, which is why drivers discovered bump
drafting. And NASCAR made that illegal, which is why drivers
switching to pushing. And NASCAR made that illegal...

Quote:

JJ moving up from 36th to 6th was pretty cool. He played
his cards right and extended his lead.

Oh come on, that one was pure luck, no skill (or coolness)
there. It's easy to move up when 7 cars in front of you wreck,
5 more run out of gas, and the rest of them pit.

John

#19

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in
news:M-udncONmZZ9jmzXnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com:

Quote:

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:34:11 CST, John McCoy <igopogo (AT) ix (DOT) netcom.com
wrote in <Xns9CB8D13681D4Apogosupernews (AT) 216 (DOT) 168.3.30>:

I'll grant you that one. Too many caution laps is a problem
at any track. But that is (usually) the fault of the folk
running the race, not the drivers. Get rid of the bogus debris
cautions, and the 8-yellow-flag-laps-because-someone-spun-
without-hitting-anything cautions, and that problem is solved.

Not at Bristol the night I was there. Every caution was at
least a spin if not an outright wreck.

Well, I did say "usually" :-)

I do remember that Bristol race, which isn't going to go down
in anyone's list as a classic. But that was an anomaly, we
haven't seen another one like it.

John

#20

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:20:37 CST, "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net> wrote in
<d87e2$4af181c2$6215adae$16277 (AT) ALLTEL (DOT) NET>:

Quote:

... the whole whoop-a-lap about him
coming up from 17th to win is hype - that's plate track racing.

It doesn't happen at the ending of every plate track race.

That it can happen is part of what makes plate track
racing intriguing to me. It isn't over until it's
over (unlike lots of other races on the schedule,
where someone leads the most laps and wins rather
routinely).

Quote:

I don't believe that the results are random. Top teams and
top drivers tend to be "lucky" at the end.

Not random, but not a pure reflection of driver skill by any means. Again -
how many times have you seen Gordon get out and nobody go with him? Plate
racing is all about a partner. Earnhardt could never have made it up front
without someone pushing or pulling him.

All part of the human interest angle. I wouldn't watch
the races if the drivers were all interchangeable parts.
Their personality is part of the show (for me).

It's like the board game, Diplomacy. You have to have
partners to survive to the end of the game, but then you
have to betray your allies in order to win.

Marty
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