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good article from Dustin Long
Nascar (Moderated) NASCAR and Stockcar Racing. (Moderated) (rec.autos.sport.nascar.moderated)
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#41
 
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Re: good article from Dustin Long -
11-05-2009
, 01:32 PM
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I'm not saying there is no luck involved. I refuse to accept the proposition that it is nothing but luck (Jr.'s view). |
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-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net
#42
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On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 00:50:42 CST, "Mike Marlow" mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net> wrote in de4be$4af26abf$6215ac3b$11499 (AT) ALLTEL (DOT) NET>: I've heard people say that coming up 17 places in four laps is no big deal in a plate race, that it takes no special preparation or talent. Now you seem to be saying that it does. I don't see how you can have it both ways. Huh????? Come on Marty - I think you need to re-read John's comments. Done. |
You aren't afraid to go back and re-evaluate your position. It takes a
bigger man than is often found in the forums of usenet to be willing to
admit that he might possibly be wrong. Just being willing to go back and
re-think or re-read something is an admirable trait in a guy and I just
wanted to voice my recognition of your willingness to do so. Go soak your
head in a bucket of ice water now - the swelling will go down shortly.
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They don't in any way contradict what those of us have said, which argue that the pack moves the racer. In other words - there's no contradiction here. He said he thought that JJ could not have gotten above 20th because he had a slow car; that he was in the back of the pack not by choice but because he had a slow car. |
skill or strategy than it was to dumb luck of others being wrecked out and
the draft itself. Of course, we'll never really know. BTW - it's not that
I don't believe Johnson to posess that skill, I just don't believe that
skill was a factor Sunday.
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That suggests to me that having a slow car might keep one from being accidentally flung to the front by the pack to win a race or place 6th. |
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In other words, it's not just random luck. |
anyone here is saying that.
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Remember, M Waltrip started out just behind Johnson w/ 10 to go, and finished just behind him. No-one would suggest Waltrip (or his team) are anywhere near Johnson in skill. MW has only won at plate races. ???? Relevance? To me, it's evidence of some skill at plate racing. |
competition at the time, in terms of aerodynamic refinement. Notice his
performance since the field caught up with that aspect of building an RP
car...
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MW was giving JJ one heck of a ride in practice when NASCAR said, "That's what you can't do any more." ???? Relevance? To me, it's evidence of some skill at plate racing. |
skill he might have had should have shown itself since he left.
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-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net
#43
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"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in news:SdadnaHMLd9Z7m_XnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com: I refuse to accept the proposition that it is nothing but luck (Jr.'s view). On the other hand, Jr has 5 wins in 20 starts at Talladega (plus 3 seconds). So his opinion might carry a bit more weight. |
beating the odds at Talladega through preparation
and skill--in the past.
Of course, he had a teammate helping him to get
some of those wins (MW).
Marty
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#44
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"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in message news:SdadnaHMLd9Z7m_XnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com... I'm not saying there is no luck involved. I refuse to accept the proposition that it is nothing but luck (Jr.'s view). I vehemently agree with you on this point. |
it's not just random luck."
And you replied:
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I don't think Jr meant it was totally random luck. I also don't believe anyone here is saying that. |
Marty
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#45
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On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:32:21 CST, "Mike Marlow" mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net> wrote in 11957$4af31a2a$6215ac3b$32049 (AT) ALLTEL (DOT) NET>: "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in message news:SdadnaHMLd9Z7m_XnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com... I'm not saying there is no luck involved. I refuse to accept the proposition that it is nothing but luck (Jr.'s view). I vehemently agree with you on this point. And yet, in another post, I said: "In other words, it's not just random luck." And you replied: I don't think Jr meant it was totally random luck. I also don't believe anyone here is saying that. You seem to be a little inconsistent in your position. |
ignored the parenthetical inclusion.,
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-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net
#46
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In other words, it's not just random luck. I don't think Jr meant it was totally random luck. I also don't believe anyone here is saying that. |
issue with. It was at the beginning of the thread.
He said you get on the bus and wait to see who
gets the winning ticket.
Maybe he didn't mean what he said. But that's what
he said and that is what I disagreed with.
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MW was giving JJ one heck of a ride in practice when NASCAR said, "That's what you can't do any more." ???? Relevance? To me, it's evidence of some skill at plate racing. IMHO - simply a matter of right place at the right time for that clown. Any skill he might have had should have shown itself since he left. |
less than one week ago.
MW and JJ set the fastest times, with MW pushing
JJ.
NASCAR took MW off the track for violating the
new rule.
What happened less than one week ago was "since he
left" DEI.
In my view, it shows that MW has a nice touch.
He got JJ up to speed (apparently in a car that
you and John think had an inferior setup) and
didn't knock him off line.
I take that as a demonstration of some skill at
plate racing "since he left" DEI. You, I gather,
do not.
Marty
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#47
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Jr. is one of the drivers that I would rank as beating the odds at Talladega through preparation and skill--in the past. Of course, he had a teammate helping him to get some of those wins (MW). |
racing-reference (even my memory, which is pretty good for
useless trivia, doesn't recall every lap of every Talladega
race). So, while we can't say what he did during the race,
in several of those 8 events he finished well behind Earnhardt,
and in 2 of them many laps in arrears.
Waltrip is kind of an interesting situation, really. On the
one hand, you can say that his success at the plate tracks,
coupled with his evident lack of skill and success everywhere
else, indicates there is some special skill for plate tracks,
which Waltrip has. Or, you could say that his success at the
plate tracks, coupled with his evident lack of skill and success
everywhere else, indicates there is no special skill for plate
tracks, and that Waltrip's result is evidence of pure luck
determining the result.
John
#48
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I was talking about practice for Talladega at Talladega less than one week ago. MW and JJ set the fastest times, with MW pushing JJ. NASCAR took MW off the track for violating the new rule. |
manner Johnson and Waltrip might not have been fastest.
John
#49
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I'm not saying there is no luck involved. I refuse to accept the proposition that it is nothing but luck (Jr.'s view). I vehemently agree with you on this point. And yet, in another post, I said: "In other words, it's not just random luck." And you replied: I don't think Jr meant it was totally random luck. I also don't believe anyone here is saying that. You seem to be a little inconsistent in your position. No inconsistency. I agreed with your point that it is nothing but luck. I ignored the parenthetical inclusion., |
Mike. I said that I REFUSE to accept the proposition
that it is nothing but luck.
That means that I do not accept the idea that it is
nothing but luck.
Which means that you do not agree with me at all,
vehemently or otherwise.
Which is OK by me. We clearly see things differently.
Marty
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#50
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On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:56:45 CST, "Mike Marlow" mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net> wrote in No inconsistency. I agreed with your point that it is nothing but luck. I ignored the parenthetical inclusion., You may want to take a stab at re-reading what I wrote, Mike. I said that I REFUSE to accept the proposition that it is nothing but luck. |
agree with it.
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That means that I do not accept the idea that it is nothing but luck. Which means that you do not agree with me at all, vehemently or otherwise. |
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net
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