good article from Dustin Long

#1

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/11/nascar-faces-dilemma-talladega-what-must-officials-do

(mind the wrap)

Basically a bunch of quotes from drivers and others about
the race. Some fair-use excerpts:

Ryan Newman: "The more rules, the more NASCAR is telling us how to
drive the race cars, the less we can race and the less we can put
on a show for the fans"

and: "Drivers used to able to respect each other and race around
each other. Richard Petty, David Pearson and Bobby Allison and all
those guys have always done that. I guess they <NASCAR> don't think
much of us anymore."

Earnhardt: "but when you come here, you just sit in the bus and wait
for the (darn) race to start and see what you’re number is at the
end of the deal. It’s a lottery."

(bear in mind Earnhardt's been one of the most successful at
Talladega).

Denny Hamlin: "I'm as bored as they (fans) are"

Carl Edwards: "I know exactly how Ryan feels. I know exactly
how he feels."

Robin Pemberton, NASCAR VP of Competition, showing that he's
well and truely lost in space: "To be honest with you, this race
is like many of the races that happen at Talladega. Lot of good
close competition"

(is it any wonder NASCAR's got problems?)

Mark Martin: " I have no idea. I don't have a clue. Don't know what
happened out there. I don't know."

(describing his wreck, and unintentionally suggesting he may have
been released from the care center a little too soon).

John

#2

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:14:50 CST, John McCoy <igopogo (AT) ix (DOT) netcom.com> wrote in <Xns9CB7B993B885Dpogosupernews (AT) 216 (DOT) 168.3.30>:

Quote:

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/11/nascar-faces-dilemma-talladega-what-must-officials-do

Ryan Newman: "The more rules, the more NASCAR is telling us how to
drive the race cars, the less we can race and the less we can put
on a show for the fans"

The author and I answer: "With a race that features 58 lead changes,
has a 13-car wreck on the last lap and features a first time
winner this year, why would you consider this a boring race ...?"

Quote:

Ryan Newman: "Drivers used to able to respect each other and race around
each other. Richard Petty, David Pearson and Bobby Allison and all
those guys have always done that. I guess they <NASCAR> don't think
much of us anymore."

Carl Edwards asked NASCAR to intervene before someone got killed.
NASCAR intervenes, and Newman goes medieval on them. Then
Edwards--the instigator!--says he knows exactly how Newman feels!

And then Edwards asks for more rules: "What they (NASCAR) need
to do, and, man I never thought I'd be saying this, but they
just need to say you can't push anybody anywhere on the race
track and then I think you wouldn't have the people banging
down the straightaway and separating in the corners. I would
not have guessed it, but I think NASCAR headed in the right
direction if we're going to have to race at these places. I
guess that is what we're going to have to do."

Ryan Newman: "It is a ridiculous situation. it is a shame that
not more is getting done. I guess maybe I expect NASCAR to call
me. I am the only (driver) out there with an engineering degree.
I would like to have a little respect on my end."

I would respect him more if he made an engineering argument about
what should be done. Just flashing his credentials isn't the
same thing as presenting a solution.

Quote:

Denny Hamlin: "I'm as bored as they (fans) are"

I didn't find it at all boring.

Quote:

Robin Pemberton, NASCAR VP of Competition, showing that he's
well and truely lost in space: "To be honest with you, this race
is like many of the races that happen at Talladega. Lot of good
close competition"

(is it any wonder NASCAR's got problems?)

It looked like a lot of other Talladegas to me--just as
most Martinsvilles look like Martinsvilles and most
Darlingtons look like Darlingtons.

Quote:

Mark Martin: "I have no idea. I don't have a clue. Don't know what
happened out there. I don't know."

(describing his wreck, and unintentionally suggesting he may have
been released from the care center a little too soon).

I saw the interview. He was fine. All he was saying
was that he didn't see who hit him and he hadn't yet
had a chance to watch a replay.

Marty
--
Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
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#3

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in
news:du-dne5UL4FP7XLXnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com:

Quote:

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:14:50 CST, John McCoy <igopogo (AT) ix (DOT) netcom.com
wrote in <Xns9CB7B993B885Dpogosupernews (AT) 216 (DOT) 168.3.30>:

Ryan Newman: "The more rules, the more NASCAR is telling us how to
drive the race cars, the less we can race and the less we can put
on a show for the fans"

The author and I answer: "With a race that features 58 lead changes,
has a 13-car wreck on the last lap and features a first time
winner this year, why would you consider this a boring race ...?"

Because I don't watch for wrecks. I watch for drivers to pass
each other by skillful use of throttle, brake, and steering
wheel - none of which was involved in any of the "lead changes"
in the Talladega event.

Quote:

And then Edwards asks for more rules: "What they (NASCAR) need
to do, and, man I never thought I'd be saying this, but they
just need to say you can't push anybody anywhere on the race
track and then I think you wouldn't have the people banging
down the straightaway and separating in the corners. I would
not have guessed it, but I think NASCAR headed in the right
direction if we're going to have to race at these places. I
guess that is what we're going to have to do."

I would direct you to the word "sarcasm" in the dictionary.

Quote:

Denny Hamlin: "I'm as bored as they (fans) are"

I didn't find it at all boring.

Which is good, and you are lucky. You are also, clearly, in
the minority.

Quote:

Robin Pemberton, NASCAR VP of Competition, showing that he's
well and truely lost in space: "To be honest with you, this race
is like many of the races that happen at Talladega. Lot of good
close competition"

(is it any wonder NASCAR's got problems?)

It looked like a lot of other Talladegas to me

That's kind of irrelevant. The fact that most Talladega races
are distinquished by a lack of competition and frightening
wrecks doesn't mean there aren't problems. It just means
NASCAR's continuing to ignore them.

John

#4

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote

<snip>

Quote:

I didn't find it at all boring.

Geez, Marty, were ya outta the room during all those laps with *every* car
in single file??

--
Tom in Bristol

#5

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:50:26 CST, "Tom Duwe" <tomd88SPAMLESS (AT) bvunet (DOT) net> wrote in <BrSdne9RR58S63LXnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d (AT) bvub (DOT) com>:

Quote:

I didn't find it at all boring.

Geez, Marty, were ya outta the room during all those laps with *every* car
in single file??

I guess I was channel surfing (which I always have done and
always will do).

The single file stuff that I saw didn't last long.

Quote:

From my point of view, the plate races are different.
They're not like short track, road, or the cookie

cutter Ds. I'm reporting my reaction as I find it.
I don't sit there saying, "I wish this were more
like the other races in the season."

Marty
--
Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.

#6

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in
news:M8OdndkBa59VL3LXnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com:

Quote:

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:50:26 CST, "Tom Duwe"
tomd88SPAMLESS (AT) bvunet (DOT) net> wrote in
BrSdne9RR58S63LXnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d (AT) bvub (DOT) com>:

I didn't find it at all boring.

Geez, Marty, were ya outta the room during all those laps with *every*
car in single file??

I guess I was channel surfing (which I always have done and
always will do).

The single file stuff that I saw didn't last long.

You evidently missed the bit where, after running single file
for some little while, they were monitoring Harvick's radio:
"can we get a cruise control in this thing?". Or a bit later,
monitoring Stewart's: "someone tell me a story to keep me
awake".

But like you I didn't watch it all - I was faced with the choice
of watching the race or working on a plumbing project (*) and
chose the later.

Quote:

From my point of view, the plate races are different.
They're not like short track, road, or the cookie
cutter Ds. I'm reporting my reaction as I find it.
I don't sit there saying, "I wish this were more
like the other races in the season."

I agree with you on this. I don't want the Dega race to be
like the Vegas race either. But I want it to be different from
what it is today, an event that involves little skill and lots
of danger.

John

#7

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote

Quote:

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:14:50 CST, John McCoy <igopogo (AT) ix (DOT) netcom.com> wrote
in <Xns9CB7B993B885Dpogosupernews (AT) 216 (DOT) 168.3.30>:

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/11/nascar-faces-dilemma-talladega-what-must-officials-do

Ryan Newman: "The more rules, the more NASCAR is telling us how to
drive the race cars, the less we can race and the less we can put
on a show for the fans"

The author and I answer: "With a race that features 58 lead changes,
has a 13-car wreck on the last lap and features a first time
winner this year, why would you consider this a boring race ...?"

58 lead changes means absolutely nothing. Especially when those happen in
slow motion by freight train delivery instead of good racing. What is this
facination with 58 lead changes? The talking heads were all over that on
race day too.

Quote:

Denny Hamlin: "I'm as bored as they (fans) are"

I didn't find it at all boring.

Fair enough. We all have our own preferences. I found it to be a total
bore.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net

#8

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote

Quote:

Some drivers are better than others at the plate races.
I'll never forget DE Sr. coming from 17th place with
four laps to go and winning. I watched every replay
they gave of that, trying to see how he did it. I don't
think it was an accident or just the luck of the draw,
no matter what his son says nowadays.

So - did Earnhardt just pull out and pass the pack to get up to the lead
from 17th? Getting from 17th to first and for that matter, from first to
last in four laps is nothing on a plate track. It happens every race. It
doesn't even take four laps. That's the nature of the draft.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) windstream (DOT) net

#9

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in
news:M4-dnTZiQKluMG3XnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com:

Quote:

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:19:27 CST, John McCoy <igopogo (AT) ix (DOT) netcom.com
wrote in <Xns9CB87D406738Epogosupernews (AT) 216 (DOT) 168.3.30>:

... an event that involves little skill and lots
of danger.

I just don't agree that pack racing takes "little skill."

You are in the minority on that one, too. Earnhardt Jr has said
it's so easy "my grandmother could do it".

Quote:

Some drivers are better than others at the plate races.
I'll never forget DE Sr. coming from 17th place with
four laps to go and winning. I watched every replay
they gave of that, trying to see how he did it. I don't
think it was an accident or just the luck of the draw,
no matter what his son says nowadays.

And what did Earnhardt Sr say? "This ain't racing".

Quote:

When I went to night Bristol a few years ago, I had fun.
I'm glad I went and I see why folks enjoy it. But
when we got to the 13th caution in the Cup race (after
a full set of cautions in the Busch race the night
before), I began to get bored. Cautions are a lot more
fun at home, where I can surf away from the comfort of
my sofa.

I'll grant you that one. Too many caution laps is a problem
at any track. But that is (usually) the fault of the folk
running the race, not the drivers. Get rid of the bogus debris
cautions, and the 8-yellow-flag-laps-because-someone-spun-
without-hitting-anything cautions, and that problem is solved.

John

#10

John McCoy wrote:

Quote:

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski (AT) canisius (DOT) edu> wrote in
news:M4-dnTZiQKluMG3XnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d (AT) supernews (DOT) com:

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:19:27 CST, John McCoy <igopogo (AT) ix (DOT) netcom.com
wrote in <Xns9CB87D406738Epogosupernews (AT) 216 (DOT) 168.3.30>:

... an event that involves little skill and lots
of danger.
I just don't agree that pack racing takes "little skill."

You are in the minority on that one, too. Earnhardt Jr has said
it's so easy "my grandmother could do it".

Some drivers are better than others at the plate races.
I'll never forget DE Sr. coming from 17th place with
four laps to go and winning. I watched every replay
they gave of that, trying to see how he did it. I don't
think it was an accident or just the luck of the draw,
no matter what his son says nowadays.

And what did Earnhardt Sr say? "This ain't racing".

When I went to night Bristol a few years ago, I had fun.
I'm glad I went and I see why folks enjoy it. But
when we got to the 13th caution in the Cup race (after
a full set of cautions in the Busch race the night
before), I began to get bored. Cautions are a lot more
fun at home, where I can surf away from the comfort of
my sofa.

I'll grant you that one. Too many caution laps is a problem
at any track. But that is (usually) the fault of the folk
running the race, not the drivers. Get rid of the bogus debris
cautions, and the 8-yellow-flag-laps-because-someone-spun-
without-hitting-anything cautions, and that problem is solved.

John

of course, you meant "time for commercials" cautions, lol

--
If you can't be an athlete,
be an athletic supporter.