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Aero-matched car noses
Nascar NASCAR and other professional stock car racing (rec.autos.sport.nascar)
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#11
 
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Re: Aero-matched car noses -
01-31-2006
, 08:50 PM
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The biggest problem they face is an un-balanced car. Most of the time they have too much front downforce because of the rear spoiler change that Nascar implemented. Then when they try to do something to counteract that, it ends up throwing it the other way. |
trying to get a short-spoiler Taurus balanced - to his mind, it
simply can't be done. Which, when you get right down to it, was
NASCAR's goal in shortening the spoiler - by overloading the front
downforce, the idea is that there'll be less effect when following
a car. If you loose some downforce when you've already got too
much, it doesn't make much difference.
In practice, it hasn't worked as well as might have been hoped.
The new Fusion is said to be a very well balanced car, so Dodge
may be at a bigger disadvantage this year.
John
#12
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"43fan" <sleap (AT) pennswoods (DOT) net> wrote in news:r9KdnbbXW8X260LeRVn-pQ (AT) hereintown (DOT) net: The biggest problem they face is an un-balanced car. Most of the time they have too much front downforce because of the rear spoiler change that Nascar implemented. Then when they try to do something to counteract that, it ends up throwing it the other way. Well yeah, but so does everyone else. Just ask Dale Jarrett about trying to get a short-spoiler Taurus balanced - to his mind, it simply can't be done. Which, when you get right down to it, was NASCAR's goal in shortening the spoiler - by overloading the front downforce, the idea is that there'll be less effect when following a car. If you loose some downforce when you've already got too much, it doesn't make much difference. In practice, it hasn't worked as well as might have been hoped. The new Fusion is said to be a very well balanced car, so Dodge may be at a bigger disadvantage this year. John |
or doing that for that specific reason. Where my problem lies is the timing
of it. Let a manufacturer spend all the money and time to develop something
under one set of rules, then change the rules on them. By the same token,
had they informed Dodge of the impending rule change prior to Dodge
submitting the new nose, that wouldn't have really been fair either.
About the only thing they can do now is allow Dodge to submit something. If
that doesn't work for the Dodge teams, then so be it. If Nascar doesn't
allow this though, then it sure looks like they're either favoring other
manufacturers, or they're purposely trying to hurt Dodge.
As far as Dale Jarrett saying that the Taurus couldn't be balanced... it's
kinda tough to believe when the Roush Fords ran as well as they did last
year.
#13
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"SimRacer" <nOspaM@simracer68 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:umtDf.52712$Kp.47871 (AT) southeast (DOT) rr.com... "jwlbal" <fakedotjwlbal (AT) epixdot (DOT) net> wrote in message news:KfgCf.5620$lb.484838 (AT) news1 (DOT) epix.net... SNIP They forced Dodge to create a nose that looks nothing like the street car beyond the crosshair grill look. <SNIP Who forced them to go to this nose, NASCAR? I don't think so, I think Dodge pushed it onto their teams for better brand recognition. NASCAR approved it, and now, as yet, will not approve any adjustments to it. If "NASCAR" had done this, and put their foot down about it, they wouldn't have let several Dodge teams bring Intrepids to the Homestead race at the end of last year. Matter of factly, I imagine those 2+ year old Intrepids are still legal for use in NASCAR, and Dodge simply isn't letting them use them. Wanna blame someone for this debacle, blame D-C, not NASCAR. D-C pushed for this Charger/Dodge Ram front end, and they got it. Now they have to live with it (until NASCAR gives them a concession, and they've said no several times in the past calendar year already). Like I said in an above post Sim, overall I agree with you. 'Course, Chevy got how many concessions on nose changes? 3 in 3-4 yrs? Anyway, like I said, overall I agree, except to the point that I stated above. Dodge designed the nose and had it approved by Nascar prior to Nascar changing the spoiler rules... In that sense, yes, Nascar did do them an injustice. |
boys, when in the past they did seem to give in to GM and Ford more often
than not, so no argument there. I was simply arguing against the OP that
said "NASCAR" stuck Dodge with that nose, when it was Dodge themselves.
Also, read on Jayski today that several Dodge teams tested Intrepids at Las
Vegas this week. They must still be trying to prove something, to someone,
be it Dodge or NASCAR or both? Regardless, my point is the manufacturer is
to blame for the issue here, and NASCAR simply isn't giving in for what ever
reason, but DID NOT force Dodge to go to a Charger front end AFAIK, like the
OP implied.
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#14
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About the only thing they can do now is allow Dodge to submit something. If that doesn't work for the Dodge teams, then so be it. If Nascar doesn't allow this though, then it sure looks like they're either favoring other manufacturers, or they're purposely trying to hurt Dodge. |
bodywork, and I don't know if Dodge has had the opportunity to
submit a new nose and failed to do so, submitted one and had it
rejected, or not been allowed to submit a new design.
My understanding is that, in the wind tunnel at least, the new
nose is much better than the Intrepid nose, so Dodge may feel
they don't want to change. All the Penske Intrepids out at
Las Vegas may change that opinion, tho.
John
#15
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"43fan" <sleap (AT) pennswoods (DOT) net> wrote in message news:jeydnS91kdqJ6kLeRVn-hg (AT) hereintown (DOT) net... "SimRacer" <nOspaM@simracer68 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:umtDf.52712$Kp.47871 (AT) southeast (DOT) rr.com... "jwlbal" <fakedotjwlbal (AT) epixdot (DOT) net> wrote in message news:KfgCf.5620$lb.484838 (AT) news1 (DOT) epix.net... SNIP They forced Dodge to create a nose that looks nothing like the street car beyond the crosshair grill look. <SNIP Who forced them to go to this nose, NASCAR? I don't think so, I think Dodge pushed it onto their teams for better brand recognition. NASCAR approved it, and now, as yet, will not approve any adjustments to it. If "NASCAR" had done this, and put their foot down about it, they wouldn't have let several Dodge teams bring Intrepids to the Homestead race at the end of last year. Matter of factly, I imagine those 2+ year old Intrepids are still legal for use in NASCAR, and Dodge simply isn't letting them use them. Wanna blame someone for this debacle, blame D-C, not NASCAR. D-C pushed for this Charger/Dodge Ram front end, and they got it. Now they have to live with it (until NASCAR gives them a concession, and they've said no several times in the past calendar year already). Like I said in an above post Sim, overall I agree with you. 'Course, Chevy got how many concessions on nose changes? 3 in 3-4 yrs? Anyway, like I said, overall I agree, except to the point that I stated above. Dodge designed the nose and had it approved by Nascar prior to Nascar changing the spoiler rules... In that sense, yes, Nascar did do them an injustice. Agreed, NASCAR has been less than forthcoming with any help for the Dodge boys, when in the past they did seem to give in to GM and Ford more often than not, so no argument there. I was simply arguing against the OP that said "NASCAR" stuck Dodge with that nose, when it was Dodge themselves. Also, read on Jayski today that several Dodge teams tested Intrepids at Las Vegas this week. They must still be trying to prove something, to someone, be it Dodge or NASCAR or both? Regardless, my point is the manufacturer is to blame for the issue here, and NASCAR simply isn't giving in for what ever reason, but DID NOT force Dodge to go to a Charger front end AFAIK, like the OP implied. |
they most certainly are completely responsible for the design of the nose...
not Nascar.
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#16
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| As far as Dale Jarrett saying that the Taurus couldn't be balanced... it's kinda tough to believe when the Roush Fords ran as well as they did last year. |
Martin.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net
#17
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"SimRacer" <nOspaM@simracer68 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:bi5Ef.41488$iQ.2691 (AT) tornado (DOT) southeast.rr.com... "43fan" <sleap (AT) pennswoods (DOT) net> wrote in message news:jeydnS91kdqJ6kLeRVn-hg (AT) hereintown (DOT) net... "SimRacer" <nOspaM@simracer68 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:umtDf.52712$Kp.47871 (AT) southeast (DOT) rr.com... "jwlbal" <fakedotjwlbal (AT) epixdot (DOT) net> wrote in message news:KfgCf.5620$lb.484838 (AT) news1 (DOT) epix.net... SNIP They forced Dodge to create a nose that looks nothing like the street car beyond the crosshair grill look. <SNIP Who forced them to go to this nose, NASCAR? I don't think so, I think Dodge pushed it onto their teams for better brand recognition. NASCAR approved it, and now, as yet, will not approve any adjustments to it. If "NASCAR" had done this, and put their foot down about it, they wouldn't have let several Dodge teams bring Intrepids to the Homestead race at the end of last year. Matter of factly, I imagine those 2+ year old Intrepids are still legal for use in NASCAR, and Dodge simply isn't letting them use them. Wanna blame someone for this debacle, blame D-C, not NASCAR. D-C pushed for this Charger/Dodge Ram front end, and they got it. Now they have to live with it (until NASCAR gives them a concession, and they've said no several times in the past calendar year already). Like I said in an above post Sim, overall I agree with you. 'Course, Chevy got how many concessions on nose changes? 3 in 3-4 yrs? Anyway, like I said, overall I agree, except to the point that I stated above. Dodge designed the nose and had it approved by Nascar prior to Nascar changing the spoiler rules... In that sense, yes, Nascar did do them an injustice. Agreed, NASCAR has been less than forthcoming with any help for the Dodge boys, when in the past they did seem to give in to GM and Ford more often than not, so no argument there. I was simply arguing against the OP that said "NASCAR" stuck Dodge with that nose, when it was Dodge themselves. Also, read on Jayski today that several Dodge teams tested Intrepids at Las Vegas this week. They must still be trying to prove something, to someone, be it Dodge or NASCAR or both? Regardless, my point is the manufacturer is to blame for the issue here, and NASCAR simply isn't giving in for what ever reason, but DID NOT force Dodge to go to a Charger front end AFAIK, like the OP implied. While I don't agree that Dodge is completely responsible for the "problem", they most certainly are completely responsible for the design of the nose... not Nascar. |
stuck Dodge with" which simply iisn't the case. NASCAR is being stingy with
"help" regarding the nose, but it was Dodge that designed it and came to
NASCAR to get it approved in the first place.
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#18
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"43fan" <sleap (AT) pennswoods (DOT) net> wrote in message news:OO2dncKXPOW9UH3enZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d (AT) hereintown (DOT) net... As far as Dale Jarrett saying that the Taurus couldn't be balanced... it's kinda tough to believe when the Roush Fords ran as well as they did last year. Hell Sean - consider the source. Jarrett's the only whiner bigger than Martin. |
driving style simply doesn't suit a loose race car, so getting
the car balanced may be more important for him than some other
drivers (it's noteworthy that Greg Biffle, the best of the
Ford contingent, is known for his ability with a loose car).
By the way, the biggest whiner in racing is bike racer Max
Biaggi, who has apparently whined so long and loudly that
Honda management fired him. Since he pissed off Yamaha two
years ago, and since Yamaha & Honda are pretty much the only
game going in MotoGP, that was a real career limiting move.
John
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