Many of the recent comments about the Bristol race & new surface have
totally surprised. It's interesting to see what people like &
want from NASCAR, and I've definitely learned that "real" fans don't share
the same expectations.

AFA the race itself, it sucked seeing a couple guys completely dominate
and one eventually win easily. IMO a combination of the hard tire and the
COT's constant challenge of making it turn well hurt many teams yesterday.
When guys like Stewart and Gordon are saying they're too tight in the
middle you can imagine how lesser teams/drivers must have struggled.
Still, there was a lot of great racing going on and I believe it'll get
better/closer in the future once the hardware technical problems are
solved.

The article below states the obvious but deals with this well:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the PITS: Bristol Race Boring to Fans, Thrilling to Drivers

http://sports.excite.com/news/08272007/v1607.html

Aug 27, 4:56 PM (ET)

By JENNA FRYER
BRISTOL, Tenn. (AP) -With few wrecks, only a handful of lead changes and
no driver drama, it was easy to declare this past Bristol race a bore.

Many people did just that after watching winner Carl Edwards and runner-up
Kasey Kahne lead 487 of the 500 laps in Saturday night's race around the
bullring.

Bristol Motor Speedway fans are used to bumping and banging from start to
finish. They've packed the grandstands 51 consecutive times, making it
NASCAR's toughest ticket, because cars slide around the concrete and spin
into each other.

The wrecks were plentiful, the emotion raw and somebody was always mad
when it was over.

But forget for a minute NASCAR's renegade years, when fighting in the pits
was routine. And try not to harp on the classic 1999 finish, when the late
Dale Earnhardt claimed he "just meant to rattle his cage a little bit"
when he spun Terry Labonte to steal the victory.

Bristol remained electric even as NASCAR polished its corporate image by
curbing the temper tantrums through penalties for bad behavior. In the
past five years, squeaky clean Jimmie Johnson made an obscene gesture at
another driver. Outdoorsman Ward Burton threw heel pads into Dale
Earnhardt Jr.'s car window and then said he wished he had something to
shoot through that window. Tony Stewart had a bout of road rage on pit
road, and Kevin Harvick hurdled a car to accost Greg Biffle.

Even Jeff Gordon, who in 14 years had never landed on NASCAR's probation
list, lost his temper and shoved Matt Kenseth on pit road.

So when nobody started any intentional wrecks Saturday night and not even
a heel pad was thrown, fans everywhere wondered just what had happened to
their beloved Bristol.

The problem is, most drivers said the race was one of the best they'd ever
seen.

"From the inside the car it was awesome," Tony Stewart said. "It didn't
matter if we finished 10th or 15th, I was having fun. The most fun I have
had at Bristol in my career."

So what exactly constitutes a great race?

To the average viewer, Saturday night wasn't. Sure, there was plenty of
passing - NASCAR's statistics cite 2,147 total passes, up from 991 in
March - but very little of it happened at the front of the pack.

Instead, Kahne started from the pole and jumped out to an enormous lead
that Edwards spent the next three hours chipping into. When he finally got
there, he and Earnhardt Jr. chased Kahne for several three-wide laps
before Edwards finally took over the top spot.

Meanwhile, back in 13th place, J.J. Yeley made a race-high 107 passes.

Not one will show up on a highlight reel anytime soon.

Bristol was repaved after the March race, and the surface was so smooth,
wide and improved that all 43 drivers in the field promised to produce a
spectacular race. Cars could drive anywhere, in any line, and two- and
three-wide was going to be the norm.

After the Truck and Busch Series put on a pair of thrillers, there was no
reason to believe the Nextel Cup event would be anything short of the best
ever at Bristol. When the checkered flag waved, the drivers thought they
had lived up to the billing.

"I love it. I think the track is fantastic," Gordon said. "I have never
seen that much racing all over the race track."

But why didn't that translate?

Perhaps because fans need to see fights and wrecks and fireworks to
consider an event a great race. If that's the case, then it's not racing
they're really looking for.

Racing is about strategy, in the pits and on the track. It's about
avoiding trouble and coaxing an 18th-place car to a top 10 finish.
Knocking cars out of the way, bulldozing to the front and rattling cages
isn't racing.

It's why NASCAR officials said Saturday night at Bristol was an event for
the "pure race fan."

"Passing was up 108 percent compared to the spring event at Bristol,"
spokesman Ramsey Poston said. "Instead of just one line at the bottom of
the track, the drivers were battling for position up top, in the middle
and down below. When's the last time anyone saw three wide in the turns at
Bristol?

"We're in the racing business, not the crashing business, and racing is
what the fans got Saturday night."

Maybe it's time to evaluate what really draws crowds to NASCAR. Is it the
crashing? Or is the passing?

If it's racing they want, then they got it Saturday night. After all, 43
professional drivers can't be wrong. Can they?

Snipping all but the very important part IMO... for years, Nascar has been
touted as a real redneck sport, that all the fans went to see was the
wrecks... seems to me, after Bristol's race Sat. night, a lot of fans are
proving those people who said that right.

As I've said for years... Most fans don't want to see real racing. Most
fans today couldn't stand it if someone had such a good car, crew, and was
such a good driver, that they were able to lap the field twice... win the
race by two laps.

Sorry folks, but that IS real racing. Sometimes things like that happen.
Unfortunately, most of the fans nowadays have been drawn into the "false
parity" that Nascar has created, thinking that everyone has to be SO equal
that you have to bump them out of the way in order to get around. Then,
when someone finally does something at a track that allows those same
falsely equal cars to pass without having to bump, you know, have another
line to run in... well, that's no good either.

Yep, a lot of fans have proven the old stereotype to be true... they go to
see the wrecks, not the racing.

"43fan" <sleap13 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

I always knew those kind of fans existed, but I didn't expect to find them
among so many of the regulars here. Then to add insult to injury and say
unbelievably stupid and selfish things like "they don't care what the
drivers like or want..." and "multi-groove racing has wrecked the
sport..." Are you F***ing kidding me? I respect their honesty, but they
truly have no clue how bad they've made themselves look and how completely
wrong they are.

I like road & short track racing for the specialized skill sets involved
but hate it when it gets to the point where cautions are flying and guys
are wrecking in the corners because of a lack of patience or talent.
Apparently there are a lot of so-called "real" fans who believe that's
real racing. I wouldn't even be so hard on them if they said that type of
racing is what they prefer, but to say it's not only better but the only
type of legitimate racing makes them so far beyond idiotic it's
stupefying.

At least I finally understand why some hate the "cookie-cutter" tracks and
have no problem with the COT. CC tracks put on great fast real racing with
a lot of passing & little contact, and the COT is a slower & harder to
turn tank built for the bump and run. It all makes sense now.

"43fan" <sleap13 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

I disagree.. When wrecks have happened in the past at Bristol, I was usually
disappointed because the action stopped. The beatin' & bangin'? Well, that's
a whole different story.
Bristol was unique because it offered a completely different kind of race
than most of the other tracks in Na$car did. Martinsville came close, but
the speed is so much greater at Bristol.
The bumpin" & bangin", the gouging & digging, the fighting for the
bottom....none of that is racing?
What has always been a draw for me about Na$car racing was the wide variety
of racing, and the numerous different tracks that Na$car has had in the
past, ensured that variety. Do I want the bumpin' & bangin" every week? No.
Is it nice to have three or for times a year? YES! But with the
proliferation of the cookie cutter tracks, the advent of the COT, and now
the neutering of Bristol, I fear that my interest in Na$car will continue to
drop if things keep progressing that way that they have been in the last 7
or 8 years.

"43fan" <sleap13 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

Yep, well said. Here are some more great lines from that piece worth
repeating IMO:

"From the inside the car it was awesome," Tony Stewart said. "It didn't
matter if we finished 10th or 15th, I was having fun. The most fun I have
had at Bristol in my career."

I love it. I think the track is fantastic," Gordon said. "I have never
seen that much racing all over the race track."

But why didn't that translate?

Perhaps because fans need to see fights and wrecks and fireworks to
consider an event a great race. If that's the case, then it's not racing
they're really looking for.

Racing is about strategy, in the pits and on the track. It's about
avoiding trouble and coaxing an 18th-place car to a top 10 finish.
Knocking cars out of the way, bulldozing to the front and rattling cages
isn't racing.

It's why NASCAR officials said Saturday night at Bristol was an event for
the "pure race fan."

"Passing was up 108 percent compared to the spring event at Bristol,"
spokesman Ramsey Poston said. "Instead of just one line at the bottom of
the track, the drivers were battling for position up top, in the middle
and down below. When's the last time anyone saw three wide in the turns at
Bristol?

"We're in the racing business, not the crashing business, and racing is
what the fans got Saturday night."

"Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOVE24 (AT) verizon (DOT) net> wrote

Not real/pure racing IMO. Yeah, throw a bunch of dogs in a pit and they'll
get vicious and try to kill each other, but that's not how racing is
supposed to be. Making drivers fight to occupy a single groove when a
track can be improved is not good pure racing IMO. And for some to say
giving great drivers more options to race faster and harder without
wrecking is somehow taking away from the racing is among the most
ludicrous things I've heard in my life.

Drivers hated going to Bristol in the past because their primary focus and
hope was to just finish the race in one piece. How can anyone call such an
event a good race? It was more like a battle royal many times and the
constant cautions and wrecked cars do NOTHING for fans of actual racing.
If the guys who do it for a living don't consider it good racing, doesn't
that tell some folks that perhaps their priorities are a little out of
whack?

I won't fault folks who like bumpin' and bangin', but it's not my idea of
ideal racing. I don't like to watch or Sim race such events. It's the
folks who think that's the only kind of real racing I'm criticizing.

Hammer wrote:

Whether adding a groove to a track is an improvement is subjective.
Sometimes, one groove is better (for the people paying the salaries).

No. They don't consider Daytona or Talladega good racing either. A
majority of fans disagree with that assessment as well.

"Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOVE24 (AT) verizon (DOT) net> wrote

Why does everyone forget how great Bristol was before they went to concrete?
I know you're a long time fan, so you certainly should remember. Was it
multiple lanes like it is now? No, not really, but you didn't have to run
the extreme bottom either, nor was the only way to pass there by rooting
someone out of the way. IMO, Bristol was a WAY better actual race when it
was asphalt, and didn't have as much straightaway banking is it was when it
went to concrete and a complete bowl.

Of course, even after being to the Bristol night race, I still felt(and
still do) that Martinsville was a much better actual race. At least there
when you root someone off the bottom, it doesn't almost automatically end up
with them in the wall and out of the race. Also, plenty of passes have been
made at Martinsville on the outside, another thing that IMO made it a better
race than Bristol was.

I told a buddy of mine not long ago, that as far as Bristol goes, you need
to get there at least once. The excitement, the electricity, it's something
you have to experience. Under the old configuration, I wasn't all that
enthused about going back, felt just as excited about it as I do about going
back to Indy.

They summed it up on the afternoon Sirius show yesterday pretty well IMO...
the "old" bristol was moments of dullness, punctuated by moments of extreme
excitement. IOW, lots of caution laps and a few green flag laps, punctuated
by the announcer yelling "TROUBLE IN TURN....". Kinda hard to lose your
attention when that happens every 20-50 laps, isn't it?

Whereas, the "new" Bristol was somewhere in the middle of that excitment
level, virtually the whole time. On TV, I'm sure it wasn't as exciting as
being there, since we didn't see all the passing back in the pack. But I'd
be willing to bet for the fans who love seeing the cars race instead of just
following each other around the bottom, until someone gets tired of
following and bumps the guy in front of him out of the way... for those fans
at the track, I'll bet it was one of the best Bristol races they've ever
seen.

"Vandar" <vandar69 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Adding a second groove to a track can never hurt the racing there IMO. It
may not appeal to the WWE like fans in that area (like Bristol), but it
will appeal to the drivers and actual -race- fans who enjoy more clean
passing & racing.


Those fans are morons who don't understand that -passing-, not getting in
line & following the leader is what racing is about. If they go primarily
because they enjoy the "event" and atmosphere, more power to them, but
there are others who sit there just to wait for the "Big-One." Watching
cars riding around in packs, banging doors and bumpers... I agree with the
drivers on these two as well. They suck and NASCAR should either find a
way to let the cars/drivers race with more power (and the ability
to -pass- on their own), or stop racing there altogether IMO.

"43fan" <sleap13 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote


I would have loved to be there much more than I've ever desired to be at
Bristol before. I've watched it twice on TV already and even with the
horrible coverage you can pick up a lot going on. Being there for fans
that can appreciate all the great races within the race musta been sweet.
For the rest, hope they give up their seats so I can make plans to hit
this race next year. It should be really awesome by then. ;-)