Chicagoland

#11

"Ken Plotkin" <kplotkin (AT) nospam-cox (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:16:46 -0400, "Ray O'Hara"
raymond-ohara (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

[snip]
what exactly is your beef with it?

I have two problems with push-to-pass.

First, it's strictly a TV thing. The fan sitting in the grandstand
does not know whether a driver is using it or has actually found a
little more grip/balls. Or how many pushes each driver has left.

Second, it kind of spoils the idea of a driver figuring out track
conditions and the other drivers, then making use of that knowledge at
the right time.

I like the traditional "extra oomph" methods that involve abusing the
engine (with risk of blowing it) or traction (risk of sliding off).

Ken Plotkin

everyboddy has it. and can use it equally.

#12

On Aug 30, 11:51*am, Ken Plotkin <kplot... (AT) nospam-cox (DOT) net> wrote:

Quote:

I like the traditional "extra oomph" *methods that involve abusing the
engine (with risk of blowing it) or traction (risk of sliding off).

Technically, it does increase the risk of blowing it up. But the
engines are tuned so conservatively for long life to begin with that
increasing the output by 1% for a few seconds makes the odds one in a
million. :-)

#13

Ken Plotkin <kplotkin (AT) nospam-cox (DOT) net> wrote in
news:nd7l9599pffjicpqifipd2rpdq9e7euq3v (AT) 4ax (DOT) com:

Quote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:16:46 -0400, "Ray O'Hara"
raymond-ohara (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

[snip]
what exactly is your beef with it?

I have two problems with push-to-pass.

First, it's strictly a TV thing. The fan sitting in the grandstand
does not know whether a driver is using it or has actually found a
little more grip/balls. Or how many pushes each driver has left.

They could show the fans when it is used by adding an indicator like a
strobe light to the cars. Better yet, rocket flames coming out the back.
It could reduce the follow-the-leader single file drafting if a driver knew
he was liable to get a facefull of fire.

Quote:

Second, it kind of spoils the idea of a driver figuring out track
conditions and the other drivers, then making use of that knowledge at
the right time.

I like the traditional "extra oomph" methods that involve abusing the
engine (with risk of blowing it) or traction (risk of sliding off).

Ken Plotkin

#14

In article Ken Plotkin <kplotkin (AT) nospam-cox (DOT) net> wrote:

Quote:

I have two problems with push-to-pass.

First, The fan sitting in the grandstand
does not know whether a driver is using it or has actually found a
little more grip/balls. Or how many pushes each driver has left.

So you must not like NASCAR racers having two ignition boxes.
Or when they run different gearsets.
We never know who has what.
I don't get it.
How does that interfere with the race enjoyment?
As long as evevyone has the same options?

#15

TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05champ (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in
news:4a99fc3d$0$5656$9a6e19ea (AT) unlimited (DOT) newshosting.com:

Quote:

Ray O'Hara wrote:
another excellent and exciting race. laps at 209mph, close wheel to
wheel racing
regardless of what people say about tv ratings, the Indy cars are
putting on a better show than NA$CAR or F1
Congrats Ryan Briscoe a win by a foot..0024 seconds ahead of Scott
Dixon.. real passes on the track, and no phoney cautions needed to make
a close finish.

and unlike NA$CAR, the annoucers aren't clowns.

Maybe NASCAR needs to add a video game button to their cars, especially
at Daytona and Dega.

Yes, run it like an old video game I remember: caltrop dispensers, ground
hugging heat seeking missiles, machine guns, the whole shebang. Doing a
couple pit maneuvers during a race is small potatoes. They've got to move
on to the heavy artillery and weapons. Certainly there's no other reason I
can see for those cars being out there.

#16

On 30 Aug 2009 18:49:23 GMT, Jeff <j (AT) donotspam (DOT) me> wrote:

Quote:

They could show the fans when it is used by adding an indicator like a
strobe light to the cars. Better yet, rocket flames coming out the back.
It could reduce the follow-the-leader single file drafting if a driver knew
he was liable to get a facefull of fire.

Flames would be a great idea.

#17

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:56:00 GMT, Chuck_Steak (AT) nospam (DOT) com (Chuck Steak)
wrote:

Quote:

So you must not like NASCAR racers having two ignition boxes.

Does the second ignition box improve power? I thought it was there as
a backup if the first died.

Quote:

Or when they run different gearsets.
We never know who has what.
I don't get it.
How does that interfere with the race enjoyment?

We don't know who has what, but as the race progresses we see how fast
everyone is going. They can tweak stuff in pit stops, and (depending
on the series) make some other adjustments.

But when it comes to the wheel-to-wheel stuff in the heat of battle,
I'd rather see the driver's talent pulling surprises, rather than
momentary mechanical devices.

Just my preference. Comes from having watched a lot of Modified and
LMS races where drivers would take a couple of corners or even laps to
ooze their way past someone else, working what they had just a little
better.

Quote:

As long as evevyone has the same options?

Yes. And perhaps in the long run they'll get it down to a formula,
all use it the same way, and my enjoyment won't be spoiled. :-)

Ken Plotkin

#18

"Ray O'Hara" <raymond-ohara (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

"TS02_05champ" <tonystewart02_05champ (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:4a99fc3d$0$5656$9a6e19ea (AT) unlimited (DOT) newshosting.com...
Ray O'Hara wrote:
another excellent and exciting race. laps at 209mph, close wheel to
wheel racing
regardless of what people say about tv ratings, the Indy cars are
putting on a better show than NA$CAR or F1
Congrats Ryan Briscoe a win by a foot..0024 seconds ahead of Scott
Dixon..
real passes on the track, and no phoney cautions needed to make a close
finish.

and unlike NA$CAR, the annoucers aren't clowns.

Maybe NASCAR needs to add a video game button to their cars, especially
at Daytona and Dega.

NA$CAR prefers the low tech approach.
like a "debris" caution or a "competition" caution.

I'm sure if they bring in the button they will claim NASCAR created it
first.

#19

"Von Fourche" <khonakong (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

"Ray O'Hara" <raymond-ohara (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:h7d3nd$sd8$1 (AT) news (DOT) eternal-september.org...

"TS02_05champ" <tonystewart02_05champ (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:4a99fc3d$0$5656$9a6e19ea (AT) unlimited (DOT) newshosting.com...
Ray O'Hara wrote:
another excellent and exciting race. laps at 209mph, close wheel to
wheel racing
regardless of what people say about tv ratings, the Indy cars are
putting on a better show than NA$CAR or F1
Congrats Ryan Briscoe a win by a foot..0024 seconds ahead of Scott
Dixon..
real passes on the track, and no phoney cautions needed to make a close
finish.

and unlike NA$CAR, the annoucers aren't clowns.

Maybe NASCAR needs to add a video game button to their cars, especially
at Daytona and Dega.

NA$CAR prefers the low tech approach.
like a "debris" caution or a "competition" caution.

I'm sure if they bring in the button they will claim NASCAR created it
first.

truly.

but they'd have to make it analog to go with NA$CAR's 1950s hi tech.

#20

Ray O'Hara wrote:

Quote:

"TS02_05champ" <tonystewart02_05champ (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:4a9a2cfa$0$4955$9a6e19ea (AT) unlimited (DOT) newshosting.com...
Ray O'Hara wrote:
"~misfit~" <sore_n_happy (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.au> wrote in message
news:h7d79q$eg5$1 (AT) news (DOT) eternal-september.org...
Somewhere on teh intarwebs Ray O'Hara wrote:
another excellent and exciting race. laps at 209mph, close wheel to
wheel racing
regardless of what people say about tv ratings, the Indy cars are
putting on a better show than NA$CAR or F1
Congrats Ryan Briscoe a win by a foot..0024 seconds ahead of Scott
Dixon.. real passes on the track, and no phoney cautions needed to
make a close finish.
Bullshit. Dixon was ahead by seconds until a caution with about 15 laps
to go. Briscoe would never have closed the gap if it hadn't been for the
safety car when Helio (?) had a suspension failure and hit the wall. The
re-start with 8 laps to go allowed Briscoe to get into Dixon's draft.

It was a good race, there's no need to make up lies about it.
--
Shaun.

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and
he's warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.

and unlike NA$CAR, the annoucers aren't clowns.

it was a caution brought out by someone hitting the wall. and now ten lap
caution period, they clreaned it right up and got back to racing.
and they leaders were runnning wheel to wheel when it came out,
so you are the bullshitter.
or maybe you think Lazeir hit the wall and wrecked his car on purpose.

there were no phoney debris cautions{which is what I said} no 3 laps
while the pits were "closed" ., no five laps to clean up non-existant
"debris" and another 5 to line up the field so they can do a green/white
checker manufactured
finish.
the cars ran the last 4 laps under the Green.

NA$CAR is ruining itself.
in their desire to attract new fans they've alienated those of us oldtime
fans.
I saw Bobby Allison's First win at Oxford Plains{my first NA$CAR race
when I was 10, and I've been watching since.
I know good racing from bullshit and NA$CAR is becoming bullshit.
and it breaks my heart.
so boogity boogity boogity up your ass.
So, you think the "push to pass" button is a good thing?

yeah. everybody has one. you can push it to not be passed too.
its just part of race strategy. it boost the car's horsepower for 20 seconds
and you havr a limited amount of uses.
it beats the hell out of restrictor plates.
the IRL is trying to make its cars faster, not slower. I like that.

what exactly is your beef with it?

It's like watching The Fast and the Furious without a camera on the
button. It's cheesy.

It's a stupid gimmick to create closer racing. And on top of that, you
don't even know who uses the stupid thing and when. If you can't outrun
the other driver with SKILL and not some stupid video game button, then
so be it.

AFA trying to make the cars faster, over the years there have been steps
taken to slow those cars down. So I don't know where you are getting
that from. All they have to do to make the cars faster is to turbo
charge them....oops, that won't work will it? I guess the cars CAN be
too fast.

YMMV - *I* don't like it.