What I see is that the drivers keep asking for more comfortable driving cars
and Nascar keeps giving it to them, then they feel invincible inside the
cockpits. Then they start ramming the rear bumps in the corners when they
have such good handling cars. They really need to take away the spoilers and
make the drivers drive.

Also they need to take away the Goodyear tires that are too thin, that give
that "feel good" traction. They need safer tires that don't blowout at every
track. It will take the first driver to be killed by a RF front tire blowing
out, before they tell Goodyear to fix the tires. How many race finishes were
influenced last year by RF tires.

"kick" <jimbutts (AT) woh (DOT) rr.com> wrote


Take away the spoiler and you'll have a 90 mph parade.

RF tire failures were a result of bad setups more than anything else. No
tire will withstand the excess camber that some of these crews try to get
away with.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net> wrote

foot it around the track. This would put some driving back into the hands
of the competitors. They all would have a different point to where they
would brake and get back on the gas, so it would hardly be a parade. That
said, there would probably be quite a bit of carnage. Too many drivers
would try to haul it into the corners, not knowing the limits of the car (or
their driving abilitiy) and pile it into the fence. This is kind of what
happened at the old Homestead configuration.

Carey in Manvel

"Carey Akin" <cmakin (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote in
news:AA4Jf.409229$qk4.296204 (AT) bgtnsc05-news (DOT) ops.worldnet.att.net:

Well, you'd need some spoiler - with no spoiler at all, the back
of the car will lift off the track around 160mph.

But the general idea is right - cut the spoiler way down, and
the cars would be much looser and harder to drive. Beyond that,
with less spoiler the following car in the draft wouldn't have
so much advantage, so there'd be no incentive to bump draft
(it's the huge draggy spoilers that cause bump drafting, because
the following car can run 2 or 3 mph faster than the one leading).

The problem with little spoilers is you'd have guys lapping at
210mph, unless you made the plate a whole lot smaller.

John

"John McCoy" <igopogo (AT) ix (DOT) netcom.com> wrote


Not through the turns. They'd have to lift.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net> wrote

Ding ding ding!!!

We have a winner!!!

This is exactly what I've wanted them to do at the big tracks for a long
time. Take off the plates, increase the drag on the cars and reduce the aero
and mechanical grip.

You can't go 220mph down the straight if your corner exit speed is only
160mph.

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net> wrote in news:bd234$43f52b45
$452896b0$32518 (AT) ALLTEL (DOT) NET:

Yeah, probably. But 205 thru the corner, 212 down the straight,
you'd end up with lap speeds in the 208-210 range. Remember,
a few years back, before NASCAR introduced the spoiler angle
rule, guys were running right at 200 with a smaller plate
and the spoiler laid almost flat. You don't need much spoiler
to run wide open thru the corners at either plate track.
With today's plate, and the other improvements in the engine
and aero, if you went to a minimal spoiler they'd be well
over 200.

John

"armpit" <udontneedit (AT) myemail (DOT) addy> wrote in
news:iDkJf.48028$697.4241 (AT) bignews3 (DOT) bellsouth.net:

True. But there's no way to get them down to 160 at the corner
exit. Heck, pick any V8 model you like, right off the showroom
floor, on street radials, and it'll go faster than 160 thru the
corners at Daytona.

John

"John McCoy" <igopogo (AT) ix (DOT) netcom.com> wrote

Well, I don't agree with you. First of all, most street cars with V-8's
don't have HP to go 160 on a straight, level road.

Second, driving through a banked turn generates a lot of vertical and
lateral G-forces, which creates quite a bit of rolling resistance, which
scrubs off speed.

Third, Street radials don't have near the grip of race tires and won't stick
at 160+ on Daytona's turns.

Any V-8 model?

You think a 2006 Lincoln LS would do 160 around Daytona? (3.9L V-8)

"armpit" <udontneedit (AT) myemail (DOT) addy> wrote in
news:CIqdne961f0BMGveRVn-qg (AT) comcast (DOT) com:

Um, no. The whole reason for having a banked turn is to avoid
having lateral forces. You're correct that lateral forces create
resistance and scrub off speed, but you don't get those forces on
the high banks, which is why Bristol is faster than Martinsville
even tho both tracks are about the same length.

Don't need a lot of grip on a high bank, because the lateral forces
are low. A W-rated street radial would have plenty of grip (I'd
say a V-rated radial, but someone's bound to point out that they're
only good for 150 before centrifugal issues arise).

I dunno. Take the electronic limiter off and it probably would.
Anyway, aren't I allowed a bit of exaggeration for effect?

John