Nascar's love of everything GM.

They want to make sure GM's still there when they go to a completely spec
series. I guess the Bow Tie fans will rejoice when everyone on the track is
running the exact same body, with a GM spec motor. Wonder where that leaves
the Ford, Dodge, and now Toyota fans though? Eh, no big deal, Nascar
figures they can bring in thousands upon thousands of new fans each year
anyway, no need to worry about the ones they lose, right?

"43fan" <sleap13 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

............ and those sheet metal differences as of now are ??????

with a GM spec motor. Wonder where that leaves
I think that you'll find fans are loyal (or 'fanatical' about, if you'd
prefer) to the drivers / personalities etc. as opposed to their cars. How
many Mark Martin 'fans' do you reckon have sold their Taurus' in favor of a
Monte Carlo ?

Eh, no big deal, Nascar
The answer is if they're attracting as many new as there are departing .....
precisely right.

"Rod's SHAW" <rod.gram (AT) shaw (DOT) ca> wrote

On cars that are not the car of tomorrow, biggest difference of course is
the nose. Actually, the place Chevy has gotten the most help over the
years.

In the past? Fans were fans of brand first, then driver within that brand.
You'll find that still today as well, again maybe not as strongly in the
past. So... I'm guessing then that you'd be happy with a full IROC series
running 43 cars instead of the small amount they do now?

True... problem is, they haven't been, and my prognostication is, they
won't.

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:23:33 GMT, "Rod's SHAW" <rod.gram (AT) shaw (DOT) ca>
wrote:


You haven't been a fan long, have you? Brand loyalty used to be
paramount in this sport. As recently as the early 1990s in fact, at
least until the FWD street bodies were introduced as silhouette cars
on the track...like the Lumina, Grand Prix, then the Taurus.

Mark Martin's case is unique. He drove Fords for a long time, even has
a Ford dealership. He races in both makes now (Chevy and Ford, which
is amazing in this day and age of exclusive personal services
contracts between drivers and manufacturers) so he is not the best one
to point to. I'm sure he has signed paperwork somewhere specifically
allowing him to race certain makes on certain dates...an oddity IMO.

But you can look at DJ. I personally know someone that traded in their
Ford for a Toyota when he made the leap, just like they traded in
their Pontiacs for Fords when he left Gibbs and went to Yates.

When Mopar backed out of the sport in the 70s, I floundered for a few
years, didn't root "as much" for Richard Petty, rooted for Cale
Yarborough a few years (3 Cups in a row...) and then landed firmly in
the GM camp when I started pulling for that Rookie Earnhardt fella
there in the early 1980s. I've been a Chevy fan ever since. I do own a
Toyota, 2 actually if you count my wife's company car - a Camry, but I
also own 4 Chevys...

So your postulate may apply perfectly to the "new fan", but I don't
think it goes with the truth very much when addressing long time, or
"old fans". We often times tend to be very brand loyal, almost to a
fault at times.

"43fan" <sleap13 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

they only got help on the nose because of the other teams were allowed to
make adjustments to their fromt end.
when nascar opened the door to the allowances that came w/ allowing the 4
door sedans in they set the precedence for things to come.

i've said it before and i'll say it again, at least when Chevy brought back
the monte carlo, they designed the body so that when the Cup specs. were
applied, it was a good race car.
i think Ford tried that w/ its SHO Taurus, bit to be honest i can't
remember all the changes that were made.

i do remember that Chevy got screwed on the rear deck area, because when the
Monte was designed, there was no rule on how long the spoiler had to be only
a cartain height. well the rear end was narrower than the Ford and Nascar
made Chevy change that on the Cup car. i don't remember the year.

brand specific fans are becoming a thiong of the past....that's too bad. i
know i miss it as wellas a few others i know.

i have no problem w/ the safety issues they are trying to create w/ the COT,
but the common templates and nonspecific engines are just plain wrong in a
series called Stock Car Racing. i like the idea of just having one type of
car.....no short track, no SS, no intermediate...just one car, one set of
rules. i have no problem w/ cars being allowed to cut out opening in the
nose for brake ducts or covering up the same for SS's, but the idea of 3
different cars is insane.

as far as the sedans int he sport, i guess we have no choice, but make the
rule set to be uniform. if it required to have a front valence no more than
4" so be it. a solid rear spoiler the width of the rear deck and 20"
(exaggerated to make a point) tall so what....that's the rules. let the
manufacturers who really want to be involved prove it by making a product
that can sell and race. set the rules for the folling year in the prior
year when the new cars come out or be sure to get the base cars in for
NASCAR approval by a set date or be forced to race the prior years model.

mike........

"43fan" <sleap13 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

Fair enough .............. but unlike walking through a parking lot and
(less so now than in the past, ... granted) and being able to visually and
easily recognize a significant difference between manufacturers, ........
cars whizzing by at 200mph afford far less differentiating design.
I think sans any doubt whatsoever.


past, ... happened in the past), most fans were still fans of a given
driver, as opposed to the ride. That may be wrong - but it would be
interesting to know that.

then driver within that brand.
As far as I am concerned, .......... I like the racing (which includes pit
performances) - and speed helps (because 43 riding lawn mowers I personally
think would lack something . I realize (and appreciate) that there is a
sector out there who despise the IROC concept ... and that it harnesses
(reels in) the progress and performance of the elite. I have no problem with
that opinion ... or those who share that mind_set, ....... but IMHO, in the
long run, ....... monopolies are not good.
Understood ...... and 'the numbers' are presently telling us that (at least
attendance numbers) - but there may be other contributing factors to those
declines (yes, NASCAR is down ....... but what about the other major sports
?? .......... perhaps there is a generic trend re: how people are spending
their recreational dollars).

and my prognostication is, they
No argument ........... I'm with ya' in that if you piss enough people off
.... they'll leave.

"SimRacer" <NOsimracer68 (AT) yahoo (DOT) comSPAM> wrote


Sim don't try w/ Rod....it didn't work for me.

mike.......

"SimRacer" <NOsimracer68 (AT) yahoo (DOT) comSPAM> wrote

Long enough to know that I used to be a fan of Dodge and their racing
prototypes .................. but things (and certainly the racing
equipment) have changed.

You think that to be the case ............ and it may well be - but is there
any evidence of that ? The world is chalk full of people who are 'brand
loyal', ... and could not name one driver of a Chevy, Ford, Dodge or Import
in the NASCAR series (hell ..... there's many a 'brand loyal' car owner who
don't know (cuz they don't care) the difference between stock and open wheel
racing).

As recently as the early 1990s in fact, at
That's 10 to 15 years ago. Times are a changing.
Mark Martin is a bench_mark wrt "referring to" in any debate about what
comes first wrt fan loyalty (i.e. the car or the driver) ... and you've
supplemented the case by pointing out that not only has he changed ..... he
drives both.
I'm sure the Japanese KNEW this would happen ..... en masse. It's marketing
GENIUS !!! ok ... so you know 1 (ONE) guy. Most of us know NONE (ZERO guys
.... or gals). I think we know the conclusion that the majority numbers will
tell us (and it's not a windfall for Asian car markets).

just like they traded in
Hmmmmmmm ........................ you've cited 3 drivers and one
manufacturer parts line. A little psychoanalysis tells me that you're also a
'driver first, product second', rooter

SO you'd prefer a (NExtel) race where Mark Martin edges Michael at the line
in a bump & grind finish ????
We've already established that the 'new_fan' is important - so, ok.

but I don't
And fwiw, ..... I suspect that there are some 'old' fans out there who could
not even identify a street (let alone a Nextel) Toyota.

We often times tend to be very brand loyal, almost to a
I hear ya'

"JerseyMike" <clamdigger724 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

You didn't try hard enough .......... and just when you started to show
promise ...... you quit. LMARO !

"43fan" <sleap13 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

Na$car loves GM and South American fans (1$ to jersymike), and hates them
Dodges, Fords, Toyotees, and of course, them old skool (misplet on
poorpiss..) fans...
So........., why isn't GM dominant in the Truck Series or the Busch Series?
Dodge wanted a new nose and they got it, and now they stink. Didn't Dodge
know what was good for them?
Kasey Kayne (a Dodge driver) had far & away the most wins last year - has
this preference for GM just started *this year*? Matt Kenseth (driving a
Ford, btw) is consistently in the top five year after year. Is he driving a
GM in disguise?
Na$car is giving Toyota additional technical help to jump start their Cup
effort - has any other make experienced this in Cup?
GM has consistently over the years, had the lowest downforce numbers of all
makes (at least when Na$car was releasing the numbers). Is downforce, all of
the sudden, a "bad thing"??
Didn't all of the Roushies make the chase a couple of years ago? How did
THAT happen???
The validity of this whole "one manufacturer is getting preference over the
others" nonsense has definitively gone out the window with the advent of
common templates and the COT. Look at the noses of all three makes, switch
the stickers around and VOILA! you have another make. If you aren't good
compared to the others out there on the track, perhaps it is just because
your team isn't good enough. No conspiracy theories, no black helicopters,
no tin foiled beanies, - just the truth. Ford has been in the series for
decades, Dodge reentered the series after a long absence, and Toyota enters
the series for the first time.... Why would these manufacturers enter the
series and stick around so long if this bias against everybody but GM is so
blatantly obvious?
Of course GM is dominant in the Cup Series. There are far more GMs than any
other make, and more importantly, there are far more quality teams in the GM
camp. Another thing to factor in, GM is dominating the series, RIGHT NOW -
who knows where the points standings will be by season's end? After all,
Jamie Mchairspray is running 10th in the points right now, who thinks that
will hold up all season? ;o)