Grubb replies to being suspended

#11

"Alan Jones" <alan (AT) alanjones (DOT) us> wrote

Quote:

That's a very good question. Was Grubb checked out at the race.
If not, why not, and, if so, why was the concussion not diagnosed.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 23:53:25 GMT, "SimDriver"
NR2003.is.the (AT) best (DOT) sim.net> wrote:

don't the emt's take all drivers involved in wrecks to the infield care
center and check them out for possible head injuries before releasing
them?

See my reply to Julia above regarding my concussion experience. It is quite
possible to seem just fine, yet have a whole new universe of bad shit going
on in your head that isn't apparent to anyone - not even medical
professionals.

#12

Good question, but concussions aren't always immediately obvious after
a wreck. I have had a couple after some horseback riding wrecks and
both myself and those around me didn't realize I had one until later
on. Also, after the last wreck in May (resulting in a broken rib,
wicked case of whiplash, and yes, a concussion,) both my regular doctor
and the ER physician I saw explained that concussion symptoms sometimes
won't show up for a day or two depending on whether swelling of the
brain is involved. I haven't suffered any memory loss from my
concussions, but have had dizziness and headaches from them.
Sandy, THT
(told you we can't decide if it is Horse Torturer or Horse
Tortured!!!!!)

SimDriver wrote:

Quote:

"Alan Jones" <alan (AT) alanjones (DOT) us> wrote in message
news:kg7jg2lp6p8ci7o7ed671g2fheg36f0rrq (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...

Kevin Grubb maintains his innocence
DAVID POOLE

Kevin Grubb told a Richmond newspaper he has no memory of
refusing to submit to a drug test after his crash on the second
lap of in Friday night's Busch Series, a decision that led to his
second suspension under NASCAR's substance abuse policy.

"I don't remember most of being at the track," Grubb told the
Times-Dispatch. "I had people pulling me in 20 different
directions. I ended up leaving, from what I understand."

Grubb said when he woke up Sunday he couldn't remember
what day it was and felt terrible, so he went to a hospital and
was diagnosed with a concussion. "I'm guessing that explains
me acting crazy at the track," said Grubb, who was making his
fifth Busch Series start after being reinstated from a previous
suspension under the drug policy.

Under terms of his reinstatement, Grubb agreed to be tested at
any time. Grubb said he contacted NASCAR after hearing of his
suspension to explain. He was told to contact Dr. David L. Black,
who heads up the substance-abuse program, but Grubb said his
calls had not been immediately returned.

Grubb told the newspaper he has no problem with being observed
and tested as necessary. "I've been clean the whole time," Grubb
said. "I worked very hard to get my life back to where it was. I
don't see it being thrown away in one night."

Excuse my ignorance about NASCAR emergency procedure,
But, don't the emt's take all drivers involved in wrecks to the infield care
center and check them out for possible head injuries before releasing them?

#13

Thanks, didn't know that; thought the Docs had reliable ways of
checking for concussion. I guess it isn't realistic to do a wide
battery of tests on every single driver involved in a crash.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 01:17:14 GMT, in rec.autos.sport.nascar you
wrote:

Quote:

It is quite
possible to seem just fine, yet have a whole new universe of bad stuff going
on in your head that isn't apparent to anyone - not even medical
professionals.

#14

RobZip wrote:

Quote:

"Julia" <jpchick83 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1158268036.906153.90260 (AT) d34g2000cwd (DOT) googlegroups.com...
I agree completely.... I suffered from a fairly large concussion in
February (from a student assault) and a smaller one last year (a result
of a fall). I also suffered memory loss and complete disorientation,
nausea, vomitting, passing out.... all of which caused me to panic and
act nuts, I'm sure....

I never really had any physical symptoms - just the damnedest world class
headache you can imagine for a few days.

Mine came from riding a fully enclosed dark water slide. Just before you
come into the open and drop down the chute into the exit pool is a curve.
There's a stream of water in that curve that drops straight down on you as
you pass under it. The only indicator I had of anything wrong was going
through that curve and noticing the water come down beside me instead of on
top of me. I was riding the wall of the tube instead of the floor. That's
the last I remember for 35 minutes. The girls with me said I came out of the
tube on the CEILING - INVERTED - and dropped straight down, smacking the
side of my head against the side rail of the chute. Drop was approximately 8
feet. Despite this, I never seemed to lose consciousness, stood up in the
exit pool right away and just stood there muttering. After about half a
minute, the lifeguard asked if I was okay. Supposedly I threw my tube at
her, said hell no I wasn't okay and left the pool.

35 minutes later, my senses returned. The girls were dressed in street
clothes and we were about 250 feet from the location where I crashed. They
told me I wrecked bad, had been wandering around asking what time it was,
hassling them for the key to our locker to get my stuff, etc. I had taken my
things from the locker 2 hours before that and moved them out to the car -
no recall of doing that. I had the key on an elastic band around my wrist
but every time I wanted to go to the locker, thought the girls had it and
kept bugging them for it. Each time they would remove it from my wrist and
hand it to me. This happened about 5 times. Finally got my act together
enough to drive home and we left. Somewhere along the 102 mile trip I lost
track of about 35 miles we had covered. Just pleasantly surprised to be that
much further along than expected.

Upon arrival home, I discovered that I knew my boss's name but not who he
was, did not know what I do for a living (drive 18 wheeler), knew the mother
of one of the girls by her first name but could not recall her last name.
Knew her husband's first and last name but could not tie together that they
were married and shared the same name.

It goes on and on from there. Point is - it's surprising how badly your
mental faculties can be stung, yet you appear perfectly fine to those around
you as long as things stay superficial. Grubb probably could have had a very
well articulated conversation with numerous parties in refusing a drug test
in that condition and have no recall - period. I've no doubt that any
abnormalities in his behavior could have been easily construed as a drug
impairment. Once again - my injury wasn't even conclusively diagnosable as a
concussion - Grubb's was. Individual mileage may vary and all that stuff,
the guy deserves a pass on this one.

I see your point completely.... although I had two separate
concussions, the symptoms were varied, and the second one (the worse of
the two) took longer to reach it's peak. Both were visable in CT scans
and MRIs, the first was a bruise on the side of the brain, but caused a
lot of anxiety and panic immediately, due to the memory losses.....
The second was caused by a blow to the back of my head that was so
strong that the momentum caused my brain to slam forward into the front
of my skull causing it to bruise and swell. Although I was disoriented
and in pain immediately, it took a day or two for it to really reach
it's peak... I actually continued to work that day, worked with
students, went to meetings, etc. even though I couldn't follow
conversations well, and had difficulty completing my thoughts. Most
people just thought I was tired, or had a headache but by the end of
the day, I was in the hospital being monitored around the clock by a
neurosurgeon. From my experience, I would believe that anyone
speaking to Grubb could definitely have misinterpreted his symptoms
early on, if he had shown any at all.

Quote:

As much as I'd like to see NASCAR drivers be drug free, I'd like for the
sanctioning body to be stupidity free even more.

yep... on this one, the burden falls on them to prove Grubb's guilt,
rather than to just assume it.

--
jpchick
http://spaces.msn.com/jpchick83/

"I'll be back 'round again, yes I'll walk in time with you old
friend"....
($1 to DMB from "The Song that Jane Likes")

#15

SimDriver wrote:

Quote:

"Alan Jones" <alan (AT) alanjones (DOT) us> wrote in message
news:kg7jg2lp6p8ci7o7ed671g2fheg36f0rrq (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...

Kevin Grubb maintains his innocence
DAVID POOLE

Kevin Grubb told a Richmond newspaper he has no memory of
refusing to submit to a drug test after his crash on the second
lap of in Friday night's Busch Series, a decision that led to his
second suspension under NASCAR's substance abuse policy.

"I don't remember most of being at the track," Grubb told the
Times-Dispatch. "I had people pulling me in 20 different
directions. I ended up leaving, from what I understand."

Grubb said when he woke up Sunday he couldn't remember
what day it was and felt terrible, so he went to a hospital and
was diagnosed with a concussion. "I'm guessing that explains
me acting crazy at the track," said Grubb, who was making his
fifth Busch Series start after being reinstated from a previous
suspension under the drug policy.

Under terms of his reinstatement, Grubb agreed to be tested at
any time. Grubb said he contacted NASCAR after hearing of his
suspension to explain. He was told to contact Dr. David L. Black,
who heads up the substance-abuse program, but Grubb said his
calls had not been immediately returned.

Grubb told the newspaper he has no problem with being observed
and tested as necessary. "I've been clean the whole time," Grubb
said. "I worked very hard to get my life back to where it was. I
don't see it being thrown away in one night."

Excuse my ignorance about NASCAR emergency procedure,
But, don't the emt's take all drivers involved in wrecks to the infield care
center and check them out for possible head injuries before releasing them?

from the article I read... (Jayski?) it said he did go to the infield
care centre and was released.

#16

SimDriver wrote:

Quote:

"Alan Jones" <alan (AT) alanjones (DOT) us> wrote in message
news:kg7jg2lp6p8ci7o7ed671g2fheg36f0rrq (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...

Kevin Grubb maintains his innocence
DAVID POOLE

Kevin Grubb told a Richmond newspaper he has no memory of
refusing to submit to a drug test after his crash on the second
lap of in Friday night's Busch Series, a decision that led to his
second suspension under NASCAR's substance abuse policy.

Excuse my ignorance about NASCAR emergency procedure,
But, don't the emt's take all drivers involved in wrecks to the infield care
center and check them out for possible head injuries before releasing them?

I haven't read reports of the race, but no, EMTs do not always check
out a driver. Watch ... if the driver can drive his car to the garage,
or drive it anywhere, you never see them get checked out. Only when
the car won't go and the driver has to climb out, do they get checked
out medically. At least that the viewer can see.

N.

#17

"Nancy2" <nancy-dooley (AT) uiowa (DOT) edu> wrote

Quote:

SimDriver wrote:
"Alan Jones" <alan (AT) alanjones (DOT) us> wrote in message
news:kg7jg2lp6p8ci7o7ed671g2fheg36f0rrq (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...

Kevin Grubb maintains his innocence
DAVID POOLE

Kevin Grubb told a Richmond newspaper he has no memory of
refusing to submit to a drug test after his crash on the
second
lap of in Friday night's Busch Series, a decision that led
to his
second suspension under NASCAR's substance abuse policy.

Excuse my ignorance about NASCAR emergency procedure,
But, don't the emt's take all drivers involved in wrecks to
the infield care
center and check them out for possible head injuries before
releasing them?

I haven't read reports of the race, but no, EMTs do not always
check
out a driver. Watch ... if the driver can drive his car to the
garage,
or drive it anywhere, you never see them get checked out. Only
when
the car won't go and the driver has to climb out, do they get
checked
out medically. At least that the viewer can see.

N.

Correct, any driver that makes contact with the wall and cannot
continue must take a mandatory trip to the care center.

#18

"SimRacer" <nOspaM@simracer68 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Hmmmm, kind of gives you something to think about. If this is true, he
should be able to get tested and that's it...

Agreed. If he gets tested and *has* a concussion and pisses clean
otherwise,
NASCAR is gonna look pretty bad if they bar him from competing on any
grounds *other* than his concussion.

NASCAR has faked results before, remember dr forrest tennet did it for them
when tim richmond was sick and they didn't know why.

#19

"ray o'hara" <roh (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:

"SimRacer" <nOspaM@simracer68 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:3BhOg.27502$Md4.19569 (AT) tornado (DOT) southeast.rr.com...

Hmmmm, kind of gives you something to think about. If this is true,
he
should be able to get tested and that's it...

Agreed. If he gets tested and *has* a concussion and pisses clean
otherwise,
NASCAR is gonna look pretty bad if they bar him from competing on any
grounds *other* than his concussion.

NASCAR has faked results before, remember dr forrest tennet did it for
them
when tim richmond was sick and they didn't know why.

Did he really "fake" results, or did NASCAR just add AIDS medications to
their "banned substance" list because they found them in Tim's system and
wanted to shun him from the sport?

My recollection of the deal was just that, he was banned for testing
positive for some substance or another, and when everything came out into
the open, it was simply the meds he was taking in order to combat his
HIV/AIDS infection. Given how long ago that was, how new AIDS was to the
scene, and how taboo AIDS was to even discuss openly back then, none of that
surprises me. I don't think NASCAR was the only one to ever make bad
decisions on less than perfect intel back then in regards to AIDS.

Warp to today. NASCAR is HUGE, and is wildly popular. I don't think they
could "fake" anything and not get found out in this day and age of the
24/7/365 newschannels and the internet.

Quote:

#20

"SimRacer" <nOspaM@simracer68 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

"ray o'hara" <roh (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:QMOdnUkcodbZYZfYnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d (AT) comcast (DOT) com...
Did he really "fake" results, or did NASCAR just add AIDS medications to
their "banned substance" list because they found them in Tim's system and
wanted to shun him from the sport?

That's pretty much the way I recall it too.

Quote:

I don't think NASCAR was the only one to ever make bad
decisions on less than perfect intel back then in regards to AIDS.

I'm wondering if the same sort of result wouldn't be sought today. If a
prominent figure, or to a lesser degree, any person associated with the
sport became known HIV/AIDS positive, it couldn't be viewed as a positive
thing in Daytona Beach. Likewise, any discriminatory action to drive such a
person away or deny them pusuit of their trade would be extremely
detrimental to their image. I think you'd see such a person fade from view
rather quickly and quietly. As far as I know, there isn't any family values
friendly way to contract HIV. 'Wouldn't play well alongside the family image
NASCAR wants to project, eh?

Quote:

Warp to today. NASCAR is HUGE, and is wildly popular. I don't think they
could "fake" anything and not get found out in this day and age of the
24/7/365 newschannels and the internet.

Why fake anything or for that matter, why even try? NASCAR is still the 800
lb gorilla. The sanctioning body is privately owned, they'll do what they
please, right or wrong, and they're accountable to nobody. I don't see any
great rush to remedy the Kevin Grubb situation. Work backwards from there...
NASCAR has without doubt established a method -if not an actual working
group- to evaluate the impact of unpopular decisions. They can pretty well
guage the dollar and image impact of anything they do.