How does the current qualifying rules improve competition?

If I am ranked 36th in the points, but I run a 28th place qualifying lap;
shouldn't I be the car that races in the 28th position?

"Wayne, Jr." <a55_Buick (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

It may not, and I don't think NASCAR cares.

Nope.

Per Jayski (in case you really don't know and are not a troll):

http://www.jayski.com/stats/2007/gri...7tms1-grid.htm

Determining Race Line-Ups - Top 35 Guarantee: At the start of the 2005 season,
NASCAR instituted a new procedure for establishing the starting race field in the
NASCAR NEXTEL Cup Series [NNCS]. NASCAR revamped the system by simplifying the
procedure with teams no longer accruing provisionals throughout the season to gain
entry into the starting fields. While starting positions one through 42 in the
NNCS still will be determined by qualifying speed, the new system will assure the
highest-ranked 35 positions of the NNCS OWNER [not Driver] championship points
that have entered the event prior to the entry deadline [usually 13 days before
the day of the race] one of those starting positions in the field, providing they
have made an attempt to qualify [which usually means the team at least practiced
and made an effort to qualify].
The remaining seven positions [36-42] will be assigned to those drivers with the
fastest qualifying speeds whose car owners are not among the top 35. The final
starting position [43rd] – the champion’s provisional – can be utilized by a car
owner whose driver is a current or past NASCAR NEXTEL Cup champion who
participated as a driver during the current of previous season and was entered in
the event for that owner in that car prior to the entry deadline.
If there is more than one series champion vying for the position, it will be given
to the most recent series champion. If the final provisional starting position –
43rd in the NASCAR NEXTEL Cup – is not filled by a current or past series
champion, it will be assigned to the next eligible car owner according to
qualifying results.
Through the first five races of the season for the NASCAR NEXTEL Cup, the top 35
in the NNCS of the previous owner championship points entered in the event prior
to the entry deadline will be assured one of the 42 starting positions in the
field, provided they have made an attempt to qualify. From the sixth race on, the
current owner championship points will be used to determine the top 35 each race
week. In the event that conditions prevent qualifying from being run, starting
positions will be assigned according to the respective series’ current Rule
Book.(NASCAR PR)
Simple: so the field is set by speed to where the 7th fastest non-top 35 driver is
on speed. The any drivers in the top 35 of OWNERS [not drivers points] are placed
to the 42nd spot. The 43rd spot is used for the most recent past Cup champion NOT
already in the field from being in the top-35 in owners points or one of the seven
no top-35. If their is not past champ for the 43rd spot, it goes to the next
fastest [8th fastest driver]

--
Tom in Bristol



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It doesn't improve competition, the whole idea is to ensure that the drivers
fans want to see are in the race every week even if their performance
doesn't merit it.

I'm a purist ... I don't care if it's Jeff Gordon, Little E or Morgan
Shepherd, if you don't get the job done well enough to get in the race on a
given weekend, shut your mouth, pack your stuff, go to the house and try to
do better next week. And I don't care if it makes the fans so mad they march
on Daytona carrying clubs and torches like the villagers chasing Boris
Karloff in "Frankenstein."


"Wayne, Jr." <a55_Buick (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

On May 5, 12:54 am, "Greg Bailey" <nowhere... (AT) nowhereland (DOT) org> wrote:


Well it depends. You might start 28th ONLY if you are in the race.
The top 35 are locked in so no matter if the walk, push the car or
drive it around the track in first gear during qualifying they are
in. One spot is reserved for a past champion if needed. That leaves
7 and maybe 8 spots. If the 28th fastest car is 9th fastest of the
cars that are not locked in they go home. You will sometimes here the
broadcast team call them go or go home cars. Thats what they mean.

Its not about improving competition. It has nothing to do with
protecting the drivers that the fans want to see. The drivers pay
Nascar nothing. Its purpose was to make sure the sponsors that do pay
Nascar do get on TV and have their investment protected. Its all
about the cash.

"Wayne, Jr." <a55_Buick (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote in
news:A-ydnb9zXJnQIqbbnZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d (AT) comcast (DOT) com:


No. It's much more of an accomplishment to be in the top 35 in points than
managing to go a hundredth of a second faster on one lap. Why do people
have to keep ignoring the reality of big league racing. Sponsor dollars are
what make this series function and companies aren't going put up the big
bucks if there's not some guarantee their team will be on TV each week.
Given the fact that so many things can go wrong during qualifying it's not
unreasonable to expect some sort of safety net. There has always been a
provisional system in the modern era of NASCAR and today's system is
definitely an improvement over past years. I do think they should reduce
the number of past champions provisionals however.

On May 5, 5:55 pm, Joe <noem... (AT) here (DOT) org> wrote:

Yes for only a few cars and a past champion. Instead of qualifying
for 36 spots with only 7 provisionals, now its 35 provisionals and
seven by speed only. A newcomer has a fair shot with 35 spots
available. With 7 or 8 its barely a prayer. Last week the 25th
fastest car went home.

Sponsors should have absolutely NO CONTROL over the series. Their
money should not buy the decisions that made the sport. It is
unreasonable to think that sponsor dollars can do that, but frankly it
has. The answer is if they have to turn the sport into a closed shop
version of WWE, then make the cars cheaper so you don't need the big
bucks to be competitive.

I never really minded the old provisional system. It would protect
you from an occasional cut tire or engine failure, yet it would
protect you from poor performance. Even that was not a good idea
though. I would have used that system only if 2 rounds of qualifying
were not completed. I would have had no provisionals if weather
allowed two qualifying attempts. If two tires cut, you either are off
on the set up or extremely unlucky. Have to motors go and you don't
likely deserve to be in the field anyway. Now don't worry about
qualifying. You are in. Run awful, but over 35th every week and you
are set.

The past champions provisional was about the only thing they have
about right if you are going to have any provisionals at all. In
years past there was no limit. DW changed that, but he wasn't the
first to take advantage of the system. Frankly they all need to go
away. Was it 95 or the last real Indy 500 in 1995 that the defending
champion did not make the race??? Guess what the world didn't stop
turning.

The safety net the sponsors need is to spend the big bucks on teams
that can produce. Its simply called being smart. If you don't think
a team can make every race, the answer is simple. Don't pay as much
or have a clause in the contract that if a race is missed, X amount
isn't going to the race team.

Here's the problem, Joe. Now it's not Ed Negre, Travis Tiller, Jabe Thomas
and Dean Dalton who don't have a collective pot to p*** in and who are 25
miles slower than the pole speed getting sent home each week. Teams that
have freaking eight-figure sponsorships and are a few hundredths of a second
off the pole speed are getting sent home, because for whatever reason
they're not in the top 35. What about those sponsors? Aren't they liable to
pack up and go home, too? And while some folks might say, "Well, if they
can't get into the top 35, what use are they," is it really healthy for
NASCAR to see teams pulling out when for the last 10 years, the mantra has
been, "bigger, bigger, bigger, grow, grow, grow?"

I was talking about this with some folks the other day. The problem is that
there are too many teams and not enough spots. NASCAR has for lack of a
better term created a monster with the number of people they've let into the
series. What's the answer? Limit the number of teams? They can probably do
it, but not without a court fight, which will be waged even if there's not
really a case, over restraint of trade. Let social Darwinism, survival of
the fittest, take its course and those who can't make the top 35 die out? As
I said, I question whether that's in the sport's long-term best interests.
Or do what I proposed the other day, do away with provisionals and
guaranteed spots and open the fields to 50?

There's no easy fix to this problem.

"Joe" <noemail (AT) here (DOT) org> wrote