Cuz they don't want to be on a lower rung to HMS, RCR, DEI.
Want to be big fish leader in small pond Toyota.
Want to continue to make money selling engines, now Toyota type.
Using NFL comparison, like challenge of competition.
Will get more support from TRD than GM.
Know they will get shutout at rest of '07 GM meetings,
but hope they still get access to GM testing rigs.
--
Crusader

On Sep 5, 2:56 pm, "Crusader" <cru... (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote:
Well, look at how well Toyota has done in the truck series; I give
them a year at most to get even with HMS and RCR.

N.

"Nancy2" <nancy-dooley (AT) uiowa (DOT) edu> wrote

To get even with HMS? lol
Try five,.......... at least.

On Sep 5, 3:21 pm, "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOV... (AT) verizon (DOT) net>
wrote:
Fact of the matter is Toyota has no budget when it races. It will
spend what ever it takes. They have done it every place they have
ever raced. They go in, and dump tons of cash into the series. They
work and spend till they do dominate. IF someone tries to make their
developments illegal by using the rules, they tend to pull out right
away. Otherwise they soon get bored with winning all the time and
leave on their own.

Either way soon they will either be winning all the time, or be out.
For now Toyota will be spending big time and Gibbs racing is going to
take advantage of it. Unlike GM which has some business challenges
ahead of it, Toyota hasn't got the same kind of problems. The teams
that miss on this shopping spree need not panic. A new one is just
around the corner. Honda will not be far behind in Nascar. If the
teams miss that one, they missed out.

What will be interesting to see though is when they both tire of spec
stock car racing, they are typically going to leave at about the same
time. Honda wants to beat Toyota and where Toyota goes, Honda is sure
to follow. When Toyota leaves, Honda usually isn't far behind.
After the two have raised the price of doing business, and upped the
expenses for nearly everything, the end may do more harm. GM and Ford
may not be able to pick up the slack, if they are even still in spec
car racing then.

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 15:56:52 -0400, "Crusader" <cru357 (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net>
wrote:


I'd down with all that Cru. But I have to beg the question about TRD.
Presently, NO ONE builds Toyota engines *but* TRD. They build every
race engine for every truck and car in NASCAR. So is that going to
change with JGR coming into the fold? I dunno, but I haven't heard
anyone say that TRD was going to turn over their engine development
and/or building duties to Gibbs as yet.

Granted, I had to "watch" the presser on NASCAR.com today and the
sound was crappy for about the first 1/2 to 2/3s of the segment...but
I assume that TRD will still bear the brunt of the engine production
for a while yet. Can 1 team even carry that burden? Roush/Yates are
Ford's powerplant providers, RCR/DEI are (at least for now) a combined
effort, etc...I just wonder if JGR is really ready to be the factory
outlet for Toyota engines at the present time. They're big and well
financed, but are they "that big"? Time will tell I reckon.

On Sep 5, 4:21 pm, "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOV... (AT) verizon (DOT) net>
wrote:
That was my initial reaction when I first heard rumblings about the
switch. After having a little time to think about it, I'm of the
opinion that Toyota might be able to affect a turnaround as early as
mid '08 or early '09 now that they have Gibbs on board. I'll try and
explain my thinking from a mechanical standpoint, since I think the
talent pools for Gibbs and Hendrick next year are pretty close to
even.

With the old car, you'd be right for sure. As we're seeing this year,
Toyota would have *way* too much work to do to get their cars up to
speed (defined here for the sake of discussion as taking multiple wins
and getting at least two drivers in The Chase.) They're making some
progress this year with Vickers, Blaney, and Reutimann, but they're
still miles behind the big boys. Hendrick (and Gibbs as well, at least
for the remainder of this year) have done some amazing work with those
Monte Carlos. The engine, the aero, even a Mopar fan like myself has
to admit that they're *good*.

Here's the trick. There's much less development work needed to be
competitive in the COT than there is with the old car. The bodies, to
my knowledge, are manufacturer independent. If that's correct, then
Gibbs already has the body ready to go, based on the successes of
Stewart and Hamlin. I feel like I may be missing something here, and
please point it out if I am, but that would leave the engine as the
missing piece of the puzzle when JGR switches to Toyota. JGR has an
excellent engine program, and coupled with the research money Toyota
brings to the table, I have to think Gibbs will have that situation
well under control. They may not be perfectly even with Chevy starting
next year, but it seems a pretty safe bet that they'll be running head-
to-head with Chevy in equipment quality by mid '08 at the latest, and
as stated, I think Gibbs will even pull down a win or two with the
cars.

Your mileage may vary, but I think your five year estimate is a little
high given the circumstances.

-Steven

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:33:46 -0700, Seven <sevensks (AT) chek (DOT) com> wrote:

That last point was a good one. Lessee then, how long ago was it that
Roush was killing everyone and had 5 cars in the Chase? I can tell you
it was less than 5 years ago. Tides change in NASCAR faster than 5
year intervals, that's for sure.

Plus, Randy Dorton is gone, the R07 is here, and Toyota has DEEP
pockets. I say Toyota is "competing" before the end of 2008 for race
wins. May not get any wins, but there will be more T5s and T10s than
this year I'd wager - and you have to be T5-T10 every week to have a
sniff at the lead and eventually a win today (fuel mileage fiascos
aside of course)

i know why. gibbs needs the money. why do you think he got back into
coaching?

SimRacer <NOsimracer68 (AT) yahoo (DOT) comSPAM> wrote in
news:uv5ud35s29fqu1cac91k4j9unccr4hrh4d (AT) 4ax (DOT) com:

Actually, TRD just does the engine development. The engine building
is all done by BDR (operating under another name, which I can't
recall right now). I doubt that will change, it would probably
take more than one off-season for JGR to build up enough facilities
to supply _all_ the Toyota engines, even assuming that TRD wanted
to change from BDR.

John

Mark <mblackwell1958 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in news:1189025998.402930.87930
@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

Which, of course, explains how they've dominated F1 since deciding
to compete in that series in 2002.

John