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Just turn your back
Nascar NASCAR and other professional stock car racing (rec.autos.sport.nascar)
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#11
 
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Re: Just turn your back -
05-03-2007
, 11:03 AM
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"David Starr" <davest... (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote in message news:gp0i335su31kqjf1bgo5gr5bv5g1esdg6c (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... Instead of throwing stuff on the track, fans should just stand up & turn their backs on the track. Why would they do that? What would they be protesting? A Gordon victory? A green, white, checkered finish? With or without the G,W,C, Gordon STILL wins. So why protest? "I don't like it, so it doesn't exist!" ? I always thought that pro-wrestling fans were the only sports fans living in a world of fantasy... If the fans don't want to go to a track and watch a race that Gordon has the possibility of winning, perhaps they should just stay away and watch it from home - then they can throw the beer cans at, and ruin their *own* property. "I like him, therefore he should win, I don't like him, therefore he shouldn't win." ? "Na$car isn't fair, because MY driver isn't winning." ? Is THIS where the sport (and some of it's fans) are heading? Gimme a break. |
license, buddy. >:-)
N.
#12
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Instead of throwing stuff on the track, fans should just stand up & turn their backs on the track. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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#13
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"Mark" <mblackwell1... (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1178160663.282650.82650 (AT) u30g2000hsc (DOT) googlegroups.com... On May 2, 8:28 pm, "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOV... (AT) verizon (DOT) net wrote: "David Starr" <davest... (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote in message news:gp0i335su31kqjf1bgo5gr5bv5g1esdg6c (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... Instead of throwing stuff on the track, fans should just stand up & turn their backs on the track. Why would they do that? What would they be protesting? A Gordon victory? A green, white, checkered finish? With or without the G,W,C, Gordon STILL wins. So why protest? "I don't like it, so it doesn't exist!" ? I always thought that pro-wrestling fans were the only sports fans living in a world of fantasy... If the fans don't want to go to a track and watch a race that Gordon has the possibility of winning, perhaps they should just stay away and watch it from home - then they can throw the beer cans at, and ruin their *own* property. "I like him, therefore he should win, I don't like him, therefore he shouldn't win." ? "Na$car isn't fair, because MY driver isn't winning." ? Is THIS where the sport (and some of it's fans) are heading? Gimme a break. No Gordon does not win necessarily if the yellow when the first engine when flies immediately as it has for many many years. That much smoke has to mean a real probablity of oil. For decades that means a real yellow with no question of it being a phantom yellow. Delaying the yellow was the time Jeff needed to make the pass. On a green white checkered, the leader has a HUGE advantage. If he had to start second I doubt he could have made a pass for the lead either, at least without wrecking the leader and tearing up half the field. (which by the way Gordon would have absolutely no problem doing) Jeff winning is no reason to protest. The way the race was run has a great deal to protest. Frankly Nascar being so high and proper with being a family sport is a bit like the phone call, Mr. Pot, Mr. Kettle is on line one. The come out so high and mighty and bar 14 people from buy tickets for throwing stuff on the track, but do nothing to clean up what goes on in the infield. You can't have it both ways. The fans that threw their garbage onto the track weren't protesting "The way the race was run", they were pissed off that Gordon won. And where's your proof there was a delay on the yellow *until* Gordon got the lead? Nascar waited until they knew there was oil being put down onto the track. I'm certain they would have preferred ending the race under green. These decisions to throw the yellow have to be made in seconds - Na$car doesn't have the time to think about it and decide to throw it exactly at the point it suits them. You guys are giving Na$car waaay too much credit AND blame as well. Gordon had the lead when the yellow flew, therefore, he would have won with or without the GWC. |
that would have normally brought out an IMMEDIATE yellow for good
reason. They KNEW it had be putting down oil with smoke like that.
How much they didn't know. Where they didn't know. Yet a long
history has shown, that much of that type of smoke means oil. In many
cases in the past, such a smoker has sent many a car into the wall
for running through it and it sometimes is also the smoker itself when
the oil gets on the tires of that car. Sometimes its the cars
behind. Sometimes you get lucky as they did. Yet had oil got on the
tires of the smoking car you would have seen a huge mess.
With such a long history of throwing the yellow, why the change? They
could easily see Jeff was on the move. In the old days they would
have thrown the yellow and the cars could have raced back to the
line. Now it freezes the field. We can easily see Jeff wasn't in the
lead when the smoking started. We can clearly see Jeff make the pass
while it was smoking. Nothing on Jeff either way. He is entitled to
race till the yellow flies and that means passing cars. We also can
see that he was in the lead when the yellow did fly. They knew that
just as quickly as we did. They could see it too. Would he have won
the race with an immediate yellow anyway? Maybe and maybe not. A
plate track the GWC doesn't give anyone enough time to really race.
The cars are barely up to speed when the race is over. That gives the
leader a HUGE advantage. Keeping up is one thing. Passing is
something else. Passing the leader without a drafting partner is with
these cars extremely difficult, but in years past (many years for that
matter) second was the place to be. No longer. The only consistent
way to pass without help is to wreck the leader. That is something
Jeff and many others have shown they are perfectly willing to do to
win a race.
This is not the same as the phantom or entertainment yellows that have
recently be talked about, but they do have a simular effect. Its so
bad now drivers are openly talking about it. Several drivers had
commented that its been going on a long time, some like Kyle Petty are
not noted for opening their mouths. When they do they usually know
what they are talking about.
Did Nascar FIX the race? No, and I'm not sure its even possible to
fix an auto race. Too many things can happen. Yet by delaying the
yellow they created the appearance, even if they didn't intentionally
do it, of manipulating the results of the race. To have any
creditability as a sanctioning body, you must be consistent. That is
something Nascar has always had a problem with. I prove my point
almost every rule in the Nascar rule book has been reported to have
the letters EIRI in them. EIRI stands for except in rare instances.
Translation We can make up the rules as we like and as we go along.
I keep waiting for the following situation and sooner or later someone
will be smart enough to do it. First is be in second with a GWC. Let
the race restart and just as the leader crosses the SF line, punt
him. Field frozen, you win. One one attempt at a GWC is allowed. If
they say anything about it, sue them. Pull out all the old tapes of
second places cars punting the leaders and no penalty being issued.
Seems Vickers did just about that, just don't think it was a GWC and
they did nothing to him.
What Nascar hasn't counted on as the sport has grown, many of their
old ways of doing business won't work anymore. This Kentucky suit
could change the face of auto racing. I could care less for the most
part which driver wins, but Nascar sure does. They sold the sport
using the faces and names of the drivers as heros, instead of the
competition of the sport itself. Now if Jr. breaks, Nascars ratings
likely drop pretty drastically as Jr. fans go do something else. Jeff
and a few other drivers have simular fan bases. Notice they are the
fans of the driver not the sport. Look at the crowd at dega and you
can see just how much red and how many shirts there had an 8 on them.
Did Nascar give the race to Jeff? Again no. He may have won anyway,
but the trouble is with this type of mess is that we can never know
now. Who was hurt the most? Not the track? They alreadyhad the
cash. Not Nascar. The extra bickering back and forth they consider
free promotion. The one it hurt was Jeff. Not because some drunks
threw beer cans or booed. Its because that a large number of people
will really question whether or not he should have won that race, and
Jeff's accomplishment will always have an * by that particular win
which he very well might have earned anyway even without the yellow
help.
#14
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free promotion. The one it hurt was Jeff. Not because some drunks threw beer cans or booed. Its because that a large number of people will really question whether or not he should have won that race, and Jeff's accomplishment will always have an * by that particular win which he very well might have earned anyway even without the yellow help.- Hide quoted text - You're wrong. There won't be any * by his win because people will |
controversy to occupy the conspiracy theorists' minds.
In this particular case, JG had the best car all day. Nobody could
beat him when he was on the gas. He would have won no matter what.
N.
#15
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Yes they have to be made in seconds, but for decades a smoker like that would have normally brought out an IMMEDIATE yellow for good reason. |
& the fans WANT green flag finishes.
They has to wait until it was confirmed that oil was actually being put
down. No conspiracy there - just common sense.
They KNEW it had be putting down oil with smoke like that.
That isn't necessarily the truth. Cars can be smoking for several reasons
that wouldn't result in oil being put onto the track.
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How much they didn't know. Where they didn't know. Yet a long history has shown, that much of that type of smoke means oil. In many cases in the past, such a smoker has sent many a car into the wall for running through it and it sometimes is also the smoker itself when the oil gets on the tires of that car. Sometimes its the cars behind. Sometimes you get lucky as they did. Yet had oil got on the tires of the smoking car you would have seen a huge mess. |
He didn't lose control of his car, so Na$car didn't throw the caution
immediately.
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With such a long history of throwing the yellow, why the change? They could easily see Jeff was on the move. |
wins at Dega. - a track overwhelmed with Earnhardt fans...
How does this put money into Na$car's pockets?
In the old days they would
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have thrown the yellow and the cars could have raced back to the line. Now it freezes the field. We can easily see Jeff wasn't in the lead when the smoking started. We can clearly see Jeff make the pass while it was smoking. Nothing on Jeff either way. He is entitled to race till the yellow flies and that means passing cars. We also can see that he was in the lead when the yellow did fly. They knew that just as quickly as we did. They could see it too. Would he have won the race with an immediate yellow anyway? Maybe and maybe not. A plate track the GWC doesn't give anyone enough time to really race. The cars are barely up to speed when the race is over. That gives the leader a HUGE advantage. Keeping up is one thing. Passing is something else. Passing the leader without a drafting partner is with these cars extremely difficult, but in years past (many years for that matter) second was the place to be. No longer. The only consistent way to pass without help is to wreck the leader. That is something Jeff and many others have shown they are perfectly willing to do to win a race. |
Na$car saw Jeff moving forward and waited until he was in the lead to throw
the caution, hmmm?
In all of that lengthy diatribe you still have never given a reason as to
WHY they would do such a thing?
To purposely piss off the crowd?
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This is not the same as the phantom or entertainment yellows that have recently be talked about, but they do have a simular effect. Its so bad now drivers are openly talking about it. Several drivers had commented that its been going on a long time, some like Kyle Petty are not noted for opening their mouths. When they do they usually know what they are talking about. |
Kyle Petty stinks because Na$car doesn't allow him to be good?
I think I hear a helicopter...
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Did Nascar FIX the race? No, and I'm not sure its even possible to fix an auto race. Too many things can happen. Yet by delaying the yellow they created the appearance, even if they didn't intentionally do it, of manipulating the results of the race. To have any creditability as a sanctioning body, you must be consistent. That is something Nascar has always had a problem with. I prove my point almost every rule in the Nascar rule book has been reported to have the letters EIRI in them. EIRI stands for except in rare instances. Translation We can make up the rules as we like and as we go along. |
You list all of these things Na$car does that appear to you to be dishonest,
but not once have you given a reason as to why they would do these things.
It would benefit Na$car insurmountably if Junior would become a champion -
How is it that he hasn't won a championship yet?
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I keep waiting for the following situation and sooner or later someone will be smart enough to do it. First is be in second with a GWC. Let the race restart and just as the leader crosses the SF line, punt him. Field frozen, you win. One one attempt at a GWC is allowed. If they say anything about it, sue them. Pull out all the old tapes of second places cars punting the leaders and no penalty being issued. Seems Vickers did just about that, just don't think it was a GWC and they did nothing to him. |
saying that this isn't possible, I'm just saying it is rather unlikely.
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What Nascar hasn't counted on as the sport has grown, many of their old ways of doing business won't work anymore. This Kentucky suit could change the face of auto racing. I could care less for the most part which driver wins, |
So why watch?
but Nascar sure does. They sold the sport
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using the faces and names of the drivers as heros, instead of the competition of the sport itself. Now if Jr. breaks, Nascars ratings likely drop pretty drastically as Jr. fans go do something else. Jeff and a few other drivers have simular fan bases. Notice they are the fans of the driver not the sport. |
Fans of the *sport only* in cup racing are rare indeed.
If you are a racing purist, you have chosen the wrong sport to watch. Na$car
is first & foremost a moneymaking, entertainment organization. The sporting
side of it is secondary to Na$car and this has always been the case. All
that considered, fortunately for the average fan, the racing is competitive,
& the best team wins a majority of the time, unless of course, bad luck
plays it's hand.
With such a cynical attitude towards the sport, I am at curious as to why
you would continue to watch.
Look at the crowd at dega and you
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can see just how much red and how many shirts there had an 8 on them. Did Nascar give the race to Jeff? Again no. He may have won anyway, but the trouble is with this type of mess is that we can never know now. Who was hurt the most? Not the track? They alreadyhad the cash. Not Nascar. The extra bickering back and forth they consider free promotion. The one it hurt was Jeff. Not because some drunks threw beer cans or booed. Its because that a large number of people will really question whether or not he should have won that race, and Jeff's accomplishment will always have an * by that particular win which he very well might have earned anyway even without the yellow help. |
breaking Sr's win total and think "Hey maybe there's a chance that Gordon
wouldn't have won that race, so it is forever in my mind, tainted.",unless
of course, you are a hater. And in that case, your opinion is automatically
discounted anyway.
Gordon clearly had the best car and won. This scenario plays out all the
time in auto racing. The 24 team put themselves in a position to win when it
counted, - that's all you can really ask from any racing team.
Write anything else into it, and you are little nothing more than performing
mental masturbation.
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#16
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On May 3, 7:34 am, "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOV... (AT) verizon (DOT) net wrote: Did Nascar give the race to Jeff? Again no. He may have won anyway, but the trouble is with this type of mess is that we can never know now. Who was hurt the most? Not the track? They alreadyhad the cash. Not Nascar. The extra bickering back and forth they consider free promotion. The one it hurt was Jeff. Not because some drunks threw beer cans or booed. Its because that a large number of people will really question whether or not he should have won that race, |
Only a very small vocal minority are questioning the validity of any wins.
These 'whiners' probably consist of about 10% of the total fan population.
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and Jeff's accomplishment will always have an * by that particular win which he very well might have earned anyway even without the yellow help. |
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