Ol' Jeffer

#11

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:06:49 -0500, "mike_z (AT) excite (DOT) com" <mike_z (AT) excite (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

ray o'hara wrote:

"nascar ph@n" <familymailalj (AT) rogers (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:PdKdnc180dn8dQjeRVn-pg (AT) rogers (DOT) com...
I've been out of the country for a few months and I'm wondering if
anybody's
been following Gordon. How's he doing?

he's doing fine , he's a millionaire and banging hot babes.

other dudes, maybe

....and i'll bet that's straight from the horses ass, eh mikey...

#12

On 7 Dec 2005 14:35:51 -0800, "Nancy1" <nancy-dooley (AT) uiowa (DOT) edu> wrote:

Quote:

mike_z (AT) excite (DOT) com wrote:

Talladega. Gordon hardly ever thinks twice about punting someone into teh
wall for a win, neither does JJ. JJ likes to cheat, apparently too, given
the shock deal

Well, tough, JG isn't the only one who likes to punt - many of the
younger drivers do it, whether or not they proclaim their innocence.

And it's odd that you say JJ cheated on the shocks, given that Nascar
said it wasn't cheating. It all depends on who your driver is, right?

N.

i think mikey's just blowing smoke and apparently doesn't know now to read

#13

"woody1965" <woody19652004 (AT) yahoo-dot-com (DOT) no-spam.invalid> wrote

Quote:

I think you will find that there are going to be more problems for him
in the upcoming season. Yeah he will win his share of races, but in
the Hendrick barn the younger guys seem to be doing much much bettter
then the older (veterans) drivers. Kinda like it was in Gibbs when
Labonte was on top and they brought in Tony..and look how that turned
out. jeff is a great driver, but I think his time as a Champion is
pat, he will continue to be a factor in NASCAR but to to the extent
that he was a few years ago.

Tony is 2 months older than Jeff.

How can he be called a young gun?

#14

<mike_z (AT) excite (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

woody1965 wrote:

I think you will find that there are going to be more problems for him
in the upcoming season. Yeah he will win his share of races, but in
the Hendrick barn the younger guys seem to be doing much much bettter
then the older (veterans) drivers. Kinda like it was in Gibbs when
Labonte was on top and they brought in Tony..and look how that turned
out. jeff is a great driver, but I think his time as a Champion is
pat, he will continue to be a factor in NASCAR but to to the extent
that he was a few years ago.

You seem to forget that Gordon was a product of a combination of good
driver, good crew chief, and good technology when the old timers between
1993-1999 didn't have a clue about CAD, wind tunnels and aero, physical
fitness for the crew, not to mention the questionable things like the
T-Rex
car, downforce magically injected into the car during the race by bending
the fenders creatively during pit stops.

It wasn't until the RAD era that wind tunnels were regularly used by teams
and the 88 bunch hired the crew away from the 24 team.

I think the younger guys in NASCAR are a problem with their lack of
concern
for safety. They take chances which result in rule changes like racing
back to the green and passing off road at tracks like Daytona and
Talladega. Gordon hardly ever thinks twice about punting someone into teh
wall for a win, neither does JJ. JJ likes to cheat, apparently too, given
the shock deal

How many races and championships did Dale Sr. win with that same driving

style?

#15

<mike_z (AT) excite (DOT) com> wrote in message

Quote:

snip
not to mention the questionable things like the T-Rex
car,

What's that got to do with anything? T-Rex car was never used in a points
race.

Quote:

downforce magically injected into the car during the race by bending
the fenders creatively during pit stops.

Just a wee bit paranoid, ain't we Mikey?

F.A.D.E.Jr.

#16

"24-Dynasty" <2X.better.than@2X-champs> wrote

Quote:

How many races and championships did Dale Sr. win with that same driving
style?

Funny how soon they forget the man who defined & was the king of the chrome
horn, Earnhardt Sr. Guess maybe "forgets" is the wrong word, it's always
been more like denial.

F.A.D.E.Jr.

#17

<mike_z (AT) excite (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

You seem to forget that Gordon was a product of a combination of good
driver, good crew chief, and good technology when the old timers between
1993-1999 didn't have a clue about CAD, wind tunnels and aero, physical
fitness for the crew, not to mention the questionable things like the
T-Rex
car, downforce magically injected into the car during the race by bending
the fenders creatively during pit stops.

I agree with the above for the most part with the exception of the last two
points. T-Rex was in no way questionable - it was completely legal. It did
mark the point however where NASCAR was putting another foot down on
inovation within the rules. As for bending out fenders - that's been a pit
strategy for all of the teams both then and now.

Quote:

I think the younger guys in NASCAR are a problem with their lack of
concern
for safety. They take chances which result in rule changes like racing
back to the green and passing off road at tracks like Daytona and
Talladega.

I wouldn't lay this one at the feet of the younger drivers. Racing back to
the line was universal - in no way something that should be tagged on youger
drivers. Likewise with dropping below the line. In fact, it was Gordon
doing so that was most often used as the discussion point during the debates
about it. At that time Gordon was by far not one of the young drivers
anymore.

Quote:

Gordon hardly ever thinks twice about punting someone into teh
wall for a win, neither does JJ. JJ likes to cheat, apparently too, given
the shock deal

Punting is part of racing. Always has been. Watch more closely and you'll
see that most punts don't end up with the car in the wall though. Tracks
like Bristol will result in more wall time than others but that's the nature
of the track and it's the nature of small track racing. I wouldn't call
JJ's driving style punting. Gordon punts, and he does it well. JJ simply p
lows into people.

As to the cheating, well you just have to get over this stuff. Even NASCAR
conceeded it was not cheating. It was crafty engineering that was well
within the rules. You have to remember, NASCAR is built upon a tradition of
getting every little thing you could get within the rules. It's not
cheating, it's creativity. What will you call it when Roush is forced to
reveal the secret behind why his cars have all been so much faster than
everyone else's for the past two years? Will that be cheating because it's
revealed that he found some legal tweak that no one else had discovered, and
he was able to capitalize on it? No, it will be ingenuity, but be assured,
NASCAR will soon enough clamp down, because he's violating the modern day
precept of NASCAR - homogenized racing.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net

#18

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:

mike_z (AT) excite (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:yc2dncdvzf4VzQrenZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d (AT) giganews (DOT) com...

You seem to forget that Gordon was a product of a combination of good
driver, good crew chief, and good technology when the old timers between
1993-1999 didn't have a clue about CAD, wind tunnels and aero, physical
fitness for the crew, not to mention the questionable things like the
T-Rex
car, downforce magically injected into the car during the race by
bending
the fenders creatively during pit stops.

I agree with the above for the most part with the exception of the last
two
points. T-Rex was in no way questionable - it was completely legal. It
did
mark the point however where NASCAR was putting another foot down on
inovation within the rules. As for bending out fenders - that's been a
pit
strategy for all of the teams both then and now.

Man, that was a glowing moment for NASCAR wasn't it? "Uh, yes, Ray, this car
is technically legal, but you can't race it here. And oh BTW, never bring
this car to another event." LOL! What was the deal with that car? Suspension
geometry or car geometry? (Is it where part of this rear screen X
measurement has come from? To prevent moving the greenhouse basically all
the way over to the left?)

Quote:

I think the younger guys in NASCAR are a problem with their lack of
concern
for safety. They take chances which result in rule changes like racing
back to the green and passing off road at tracks like Daytona and
Talladega.

I wouldn't lay this one at the feet of the younger drivers. Racing back
to
the line was universal - in no way something that should be tagged on
youger
drivers. Likewise with dropping below the line. In fact, it was Gordon
doing so that was most often used as the discussion point during the
debates
about it. At that time Gordon was by far not one of the young drivers
anymore.

God don't say that here. We all *know* that Dale Junior is the reason
there's an 'out of bounds' line now...lol The Gordonites will never stand
for that comment of yours. ;-p

Quote:

Gordon hardly ever thinks twice about punting someone into teh
wall for a win, neither does JJ. JJ likes to cheat, apparently too,
given
the shock deal

Punting is part of racing. Always has been. Watch more closely and
you'll
see that most punts don't end up with the car in the wall though. Tracks
like Bristol will result in more wall time than others but that's the
nature
of the track and it's the nature of small track racing. I wouldn't call
JJ's driving style punting. Gordon punts, and he does it well. JJ simply
p
lows into people.

Jeff Gordon has the talent to move someone over without wrecking them (most
of the time) but the true master at it was Dale Senior. Sure, he wrecked a
few people, even wrecked T-Lab twice at Bristol, but there were scores of
times he just "moved" people just enough to get by...JJ, KB, and few others
have yet to grasp this concept yet, much less master it IMO.

Quote:

As to the cheating, well you just have to get over this stuff. Even
NASCAR
conceeded it was not cheating. It was crafty engineering that was well
within the rules. You have to remember, NASCAR is built upon a tradition
of
getting every little thing you could get within the rules. It's not
cheating, it's creativity. What will you call it when Roush is forced to
reveal the secret behind why his cars have all been so much faster than
everyone else's for the past two years?

And when is someone going to whine enough to have HIS engines torn down on
pit road in front of everyone, like they did Rusty's a few years ago, just
to appease the whiner Jack?

Quote:

Will that be cheating because it's revealed that he found some legal tweak
that no one else had >discovered, and he was able to capitalize on it? No,

it will be ingenuity, but be assured,

Quote:

NASCAR will soon enough clamp down, because he's violating the modern day
precept of NASCAR - homogenized racing.

May be ingenuity, but c'mon, Jack has been rung up his fair share for
cheating. Just ask Mark Martin about one of his numerous 2nd place finishes
in the points, and how many points he lost due to "cheating" during the
course of that particular season. That's one of the main reasons I can't
stand JR. He continouly has pointed the finger of blame at (then) superior
teams, when his own teams have been pinged themselves numerous times for
their own actions. Now that he's "on top", you don't hear his whining as
much do you? Of course not, he probably has a few things to hide
himself...and doesn't need the attention.

Quote:

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net

#19

24-Dynasty wrote:

Quote:

"woody1965" <woody19652004 (AT) yahoo-dot-com (DOT) no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:4396f602$0$5355$c3e8da3 (AT) news (DOT) astraweb.com...
I think you will find that there are going to be more problems for him
in the upcoming season. Yeah he will win his share of races, but in
the Hendrick barn the younger guys seem to be doing much much bettter
then the older (veterans) drivers. Kinda like it was in Gibbs when
Labonte was on top and they brought in Tony..and look how that turned
out. jeff is a great driver, but I think his time as a Champion is
pat, he will continue to be a factor in NASCAR but to to the extent
that he was a few years ago.

Tony is 2 months older than Jeff.
How can he be called a young gun?

I think that "young gun" thing started (at least in my time with Nascar
fandom) as a Gillette (razor) sponsored commercial thing, and it stuck.
It could have been around for decades, though - "young gun" is a kind
of autonomous term used by lots of areas of business enterprise.

N.

#20

"SimRacer" <nOspaM@simracer68 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Man, that was a glowing moment for NASCAR wasn't it? "Uh, yes, Ray, this
car
is technically legal, but you can't race it here. And oh BTW, never bring
this car to another event." LOL! What was the deal with that car?
Suspension
geometry or car geometry? (Is it where part of this rear screen X
measurement has come from? To prevent moving the greenhouse basically all
the way over to the left?)

According to Ray, he said that the chassis was specifically engineered for

short sprints (about 40 laps or so).
After that, the lap times fell off dramatically. (I guess the tires couldn't
hold up at that pace.)
Ray felt that even if NASCAR had allowed the chassis for future races, it
wouldn't have been of any advantage in the 400-500 milers.