Overdue D500 thoughts

Well, just one thought, really.

How in the hell can anyone, Darrell Waltrip included, say that Nascar did
the right thing by not throwing a caution flag on the final lap of the
Daytona 500? That has to be one of, if not the very dumbest thing I've heard
in a long time.

And this has nothing to do with who won, and nothing to do with the lucky
break Nascar caught when no one got hurt. This has to do with the simple
fact that there was an unsafe condition on the track, plain & simple.

And don't give me any of this bullshit that I've been reading that it
wouldn't have made any difference because the drivers saw the crash and
would slow down anyway. Anyone who believes that load of crap knows
absolutely nothing about what goes on in a driver's head on the track. We're
talking the last half mile of the Daytona 500. Unless the driver hears his
spotter yelling "caution, caution, caution", he isn't going to slow down any
more than he thinks he needs to to negotiate the situation at hand.

Nascar got their green flag finish. Too bad they had to risk the safety of
30 drivers heading into a cloud of smoke at 190mph in order to get it.
Dumbest. Shit. Ever.

"armpit" <armarmpitpit (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

And don't give me any of this bullshit that I've been reading that it
wouldn't have made any difference because the drivers saw the crash and
would slow down anyway. Anyone who believes that load of crap knows
absolutely nothing about what goes on in a driver's head on the track.
We're
talking the last half mile of the Daytona 500. Unless the driver hears his
spotter yelling "caution, caution, caution", he isn't going to slow down
any
more than he thinks he needs to to negotiate the situation at hand.

And given the condition on the track, that was pretty damned slow. It was
as much as a caution was going to accomplish.

Nascar got their green flag finish. Too bad they had to risk the safety of
30 drivers heading into a cloud of smoke at 190mph in order to get it.
Dumbest. Shit. Ever.

Well, let's see... spotters are yelling that there's a wreck, go low, go
high, etc. Drivers are responding the same way they would if there was a
caution flag. What good would the flag have done? None.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:48:55 -0500,
armpit wrote:

Well, just one thought, really.

How in the hell can anyone, Darrell Waltrip included, say that Nascar did
the right thing by not throwing a caution flag on the final lap of the
Daytona 500? That has to be one of, if not the very dumbest thing I've heard
in a long time.

And this has nothing to do with who won, and nothing to do with the lucky
break Nascar caught when no one got hurt. This has to do with the simple
fact that there was an unsafe condition on the track, plain & simple.

And don't give me any of this bullshit that I've been reading that it
wouldn't have made any difference because the drivers saw the crash and
would slow down anyway. Anyone who believes that load of crap knows
absolutely nothing about what goes on in a driver's head on the track. We're
talking the last half mile of the Daytona 500. Unless the driver hears his
spotter yelling "caution, caution, caution", he isn't going to slow down any
more than he thinks he needs to to negotiate the situation at hand.

Nascar got their green flag finish. Too bad they had to risk the safety of
30 drivers heading into a cloud of smoke at 190mph in order to get it.
Dumbest. Shit. Ever.

na$crap = wwe

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlow (AT) alltel (DOT) net> wrote

"armpit" <armarmpitpit (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:R7OdnedzMuXbN37YnZ2dnUVZ_tOmnZ2d (AT) giganews (DOT) com...


And don't give me any of this bullshit that I've been reading that it
wouldn't have made any difference because the drivers saw the crash and
would slow down anyway. Anyone who believes that load of crap knows
absolutely nothing about what goes on in a driver's head on the track.
We're
talking the last half mile of the Daytona 500. Unless the driver hears
his
spotter yelling "caution, caution, caution", he isn't going to slow down
any
more than he thinks he needs to to negotiate the situation at hand.

And given the condition on the track, that was pretty damned slow. It was
as much as a caution was going to accomplish.

Only because a caution was expected. It should have been thrown as soon as
Kenseth was sideways in front of the field. But I'll watch it again and see
how many secondary crashes occurred because drivers didn't slow down or at
least didn't slow enough, not that that really matters.

Nascar got their green flag finish. Too bad they had to risk the safety
of
30 drivers heading into a cloud of smoke at 190mph in order to get it.
Dumbest. Shit. Ever.


Well, let's see... spotters are yelling that there's a wreck, go low, go
high, etc. Drivers are responding the same way they would if there was a
caution flag. What good would the flag have done? None.

Sure, some drivers slowed with the *expectation* of a caution. What is
everyone going to to next time, knowing that they stand a chance to pick up
several positions if they can keep their foot in it? It'll be a total melee.

"armpit" <armarmpitpit (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Only because a caution was expected. It should have been thrown as soon as
Kenseth was sideways in front of the field. But I'll watch it again and
see
how many secondary crashes occurred because drivers didn't slow down or at
least didn't slow enough, not that that really matters.

I believe there was an expectation of a caution, but they would have been
out of it no matter. It's simply a case of needing to get through the stuff
in order to get to the finish line on the other side. My contention is that
every car slowed just as they would have if a caution had come out, just as
a matter of survival. I think if you do get the chance to watchit again,
that you'll see that everyone did slow down - at least as much as was
possible. Cautions do not make cars slow down any faster - the laws of
physics still prevail.

Sure, some drivers slowed with the *expectation* of a caution. What is
everyone going to to next time, knowing that they stand a chance to pick
up
several positions if they can keep their foot in it? It'll be a total
melee.

No, they still have to get through the melee in order to pick up those extra
positions and points. Watch any wreck - cars slow. Drivers know they have
to get through the wreck to gain anything. Nobody but a Bodine tries to
just plow their way through things.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlow (AT) alltel (DOT) net> wrote

"armpit" <armarmpitpit (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news5SdnSxEvIo2jnnYnZ2dnUVZ_hisnZ2d (AT) giganews (DOT) com...


Only because a caution was expected. It should have been thrown as soon
as
Kenseth was sideways in front of the field. But I'll watch it again and
see
how many secondary crashes occurred because drivers didn't slow down or
at
least didn't slow enough, not that that really matters.


I believe there was an expectation of a caution, but they would have been
out of it no matter. It's simply a case of needing to get through the
stuff
in order to get to the finish line on the other side. My contention is
that
every car slowed just as they would have if a caution had come out, just
as
a matter of survival. I think if you do get the chance to watchit again,
that you'll see that everyone did slow down - at least as much as was
possible. Cautions do not make cars slow down any faster - the laws of
physics still prevail.

And my contention is that many slowed due to the expectation of a caution
that would freeze the field and allow the driver to slow and save his car
without concern for his position.

When it happens again, I don't expect the same result, now that the drivers
know Nascar won't bring out the yellow.

Sure, some drivers slowed with the *expectation* of a caution. What is
everyone going to to next time, knowing that they stand a chance to pick
up
several positions if they can keep their foot in it? It'll be a total
melee.



No, they still have to get through the melee in order to pick up those
extra
positions and points. Watch any wreck - cars slow. Drivers know they
have
to get through the wreck to gain anything.

Right, but now they can't slow as much, since their position is at stake.

Nobody but a Bodine tries to
just plow their way through things.

Exactly my point. What do you think Mike Skinner will do next time?

Nascar has established a bad precedent. If it happens again I honestly
believe that there will be a few drivers who will "go for it" and try to
pick up 10-15 positions by driving blindly into the smoke and hoping their
spotter is right when he says "go high", or just simply try to drive through
an opening that may close up by the time they get to it.

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlow (AT) alltel (DOT) net> wrote

"armpit" <armarmpitpit (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news5SdnSxEvIo2jnnYnZ2dnUVZ_hisnZ2d (AT) giganews (DOT) com...


Only because a caution was expected. It should have been thrown as soon as
Kenseth was sideways in front of the field. But I'll watch it again and see
how many secondary crashes occurred because drivers didn't slow down or at
least didn't slow enough, not that that really matters.

If all drivers *knew* and *believed* that their positions at the time of a Caution
wouild be frozen and that they could trust NASCAR to follow the very definite
policy they established to provide safety for the drivers, they *would* lift off
the gas.

I believe there was an expectation of a caution, but they would have been
out of it no matter. It's simply a case of needing to get through the stuff
in order to get to the finish line on the other side. My contention is that
every car slowed just as they would have if a caution had come out, just as
a matter of survival. I think if you do get the chance to watchit again,
that you'll see that everyone did slow down - at least as much as was
possible. Cautions do not make cars slow down any faster - the laws of
physics still prevail.

The law of physics is one thing...the desire to finish as high as possible is the
other pressure at work here. Especially now that NASCAR has demonstrated they
can't be trusted to follow their own policy regarding Cautions.

Spotters were tellinng their drivers the Green was still out! When Biffle heard
that, he was facing away from S/F in the grass...he jammed his car in reverse and
floored it and then saw Boyer upside down on fire in his mirror.

Gilliland was on/near pit road and steered to a line as directly toward S/F
(extended in the grass toward the pits) and *roared* across the infield and damn
near wiped out two cars as he came back onto the track in the down-stream part of
the tri-oval.

Sure, some drivers slowed with the *expectation* of a caution. What is
everyone going to to next time, knowing that they stand a chance to pick up
several positions if they can keep their foot in it? It'll be a total melee.

Absolutely...this is a horrible precedent to set...and it goes with the stupidity
of saying that "...on the last lap when the Checkers are in sight, all bets are
off..." as was said after the Truck race when Benson went below the yellow line to
gain second spot at Daytona.

--
Tom in Bristol



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"armpit" <armarmpitpit (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Well, just one thought, really.

How in the hell can anyone, Darrell Waltrip included, say that Nascar did
the right thing by not throwing a caution flag on the final lap of the
Daytona 500? That has to be one of, if not the very dumbest thing I've
heard
in a long time.

And this has nothing to do with who won, and nothing to do with the lucky
break Nascar caught when no one got hurt. This has to do with the simple
fact that there was an unsafe condition on the track, plain & simple.

And don't give me any of this bullshit that I've been reading that it
wouldn't have made any difference because the drivers saw the crash and
would slow down anyway. Anyone who believes that load of crap knows
absolutely nothing about what goes on in a driver's head on the track.
We're
talking the last half mile of the Daytona 500. Unless the driver hears his
spotter yelling "caution, caution, caution", he isn't going to slow down
any
more than he thinks he needs to to negotiate the situation at hand.

Nascar got their green flag finish. Too bad they had to risk the safety of
30 drivers heading into a cloud of smoke at 190mph in order to get it.
Dumbest. Shit. Ever.

Jeez, here we go again! How far was it from the wreck to the back of the

pack? 1 second? two? By the time the yellow would have come out, the
damage would already be in the history books. Calculate the distance a car
covers at 180 m.p.h. for one or 2 seconds. Sheeesh!

"Duncan Craig" <duncan.donut (AT) cogeco (DOT) ca> wrote

"armpit" <armarmpitpit (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:R7OdnedzMuXbN37YnZ2dnUVZ_tOmnZ2d (AT) giganews (DOT) com...
Well, just one thought, really.

How in the hell can anyone, Darrell Waltrip included, say that Nascar did
the right thing by not throwing a caution flag on the final lap of the
Daytona 500? That has to be one of, if not the very dumbest thing I've
heard
in a long time.

And this has nothing to do with who won, and nothing to do with the lucky
break Nascar caught when no one got hurt. This has to do with the simple
fact that there was an unsafe condition on the track, plain & simple.

And don't give me any of this bullshit that I've been reading that it
wouldn't have made any difference because the drivers saw the crash and
would slow down anyway. Anyone who believes that load of crap knows
absolutely nothing about what goes on in a driver's head on the track.
We're
talking the last half mile of the Daytona 500. Unless the driver hears
his
spotter yelling "caution, caution, caution", he isn't going to slow down
any
more than he thinks he needs to to negotiate the situation at hand.

Nascar got their green flag finish. Too bad they had to risk the safety
of
30 drivers heading into a cloud of smoke at 190mph in order to get it.
Dumbest. Shit. Ever.

Jeez, here we go again! How far was it from the wreck to the back of the
pack? 1 second? two? By the time the yellow would have come out, the
damage would already be in the history books. Calculate the distance a
car covers at 180 m.p.h. for one or 2 seconds. Sheeesh!

Then I guess from now on there's no reason to throw a caution at Daytona or
Talladega again, ever.

"armpit" <armarmpitpit (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Right, but now they can't slow as much, since their position is at stake.

I don't believe it's a matter of how much they slow at all. So what if they
don't slow to caution lap speeds? What does it matter at all as long as
they are slowing enough to navigate the melee - or attempting to.

Nobody but a Bodine tries to
just plow their way through things.


Exactly my point. What do you think Mike Skinner will do next time?

Nascar has established a bad precedent. If it happens again I honestly
believe that there will be a few drivers who will "go for it" and try to
pick up 10-15 positions by driving blindly into the smoke and hoping their
spotter is right when he says "go high", or just simply try to drive
through
an opening that may close up by the time they get to it.

This is something we'll have to watch for in the future, but my bet is that
we don't see drivers trying to blindly blast through the smoke. We haven't
seen that in the past when position was important, and I just don't believe
we'll see it at the end of races. It still comes down to having to get
through the stuff, and to the finish line.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net