RCR wheel mods

#31

"Carey Akin" <cmakin (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote:

Quote:

"Chuck Steak" <Chuck_Steak (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in message

the fact that you don't think some things can be done,
is why people find ways to do them...

Quote:

In order for it to even be effective, it would have to dump the extra
pressure built up within three to four laps. It would then have to maintain
that pressure (not lose it) for the remaining green flag run. The slow leak
theory doesn't play out. You could not dump enough of the pressure through
a slow leak to be effective so that the build up won't effect handling, and
then have it maintain a steady pressure for the remainder of the run. It
would take more than just cutting slits in the bead seat of a tire.

I have to ask anybody who doesn't believe this if they have ANY experience
dealing with tires and racing.

Carey in Manvel

My biggest point , Carey, is that when people think and say,
"there is no way", 9 times out of 10 there are people
that are working hard on it to prove you wrong. And will.
That is the nature of racing....

I refer back to the long argument we had running a while
back about the traction control devices.
Everyone that said you couldn't do it without getting caught,
was thinking "in the box" that tc had to have wheel sensors
and all kinds of stuff common to the tc we see on passenger
cars... no one wanted to think of anything that rotated
could be used... wires in paint... decoys... cell phones...
modified radios... gps...
At the time, I was talking with guys that were doing it!
Yet some here were saying no way... can't be done..

I, like you, have been around racing for quite a while.
I learned a long time ago that there are some incredibly
sharp people out there.....
They thrive on the fact that when you say it can't be done,
it's great! because no one will look for it!

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that ANYTHING is possible.
I'm just saying don't say that something is impossible,
because we haven't seen it, or don't understand it, outside of our box.

If you can have a tire go from 32# and stop at 16#
from a drywall screw you picked up in the parking lot
someone can make a tire/wheel combo lose pressure and stop at 33.....

If you say you can't, that is why you aren't writing books on cheating.
And neither am I....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan

I got a new Matco tool box for my wife.
Best trade I ever made...

#32

"Chuck Steak" <Chuck_Steak (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

My biggest point , Carey, is that when people think and say,
"there is no way", 9 times out of 10 there are people
that are working hard on it to prove you wrong. And will.
That is the nature of racing....

I refer back to the long argument we had running a while
back about the traction control devices.
Everyone that said you couldn't do it without getting caught,
was thinking "in the box" that tc had to have wheel sensors
and all kinds of stuff common to the tc we see on passenger
cars... no one wanted to think of anything that rotated
could be used... wires in paint... decoys... cell phones...
modified radios... gps...
At the time, I was talking with guys that were doing it!
Yet some here were saying no way... can't be done..

I, like you, have been around racing for quite a while.
I learned a long time ago that there are some incredibly
sharp people out there.....
They thrive on the fact that when you say it can't be done,
it's great! because no one will look for it!

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that ANYTHING is possible.
I'm just saying don't say that something is impossible,
because we haven't seen it, or don't understand it, outside of our box.

If you can have a tire go from 32# and stop at 16#
from a drywall screw you picked up in the parking lot
someone can make a tire/wheel combo lose pressure and stop at 33.....

Yes, but trying to get that pressure drop to be repeatable and controllable
when important items like the design of the tire and the compound are
outside of your control, it just ain't gonna happen.

Quote:

If you say you can't, that is why you aren't writing books on cheating.
And neither am I....

Just don't look at our car TOO closely........

Carey in Manvel

#33

"Speeed Racer!" <wedontneedanysteenkingreplies (AT) whodat (DOT) org> wrote

Quote:

Why? Just because you say so?
There are far smarter people out there in Na$car than you.
Just because it is beyond *your*comprehension means it doesn't exist? HA!
I'll put you at the end of the long line of folks who said that certain
things were not possible like: A cure for Polio, nuclear fission, air
travel, space travel, DNA identification, cloning, ect, ect.
It is only impossible until someone does it.

Yeah, I would put a "secret" bleeder rim on the level of nuclear fission.

Not if the slot was near the area of the rim where the tire seats.
As pressures build, the tire pulls away from the rim, uncovers the slot,
the
air bleeds off until the tire again covers the slot.
It may not be that simple, but it could be.
I myself have had tires with leaks that would leak down to a certain
point,
but not go flat. So it's impossible to fabricate this phenomenon?

As the pressure builds in a tire, the bead seal gets tighter. It certainly
does not pull away from the rim. The reason your leaky tires didn't go flat
is because you put air in them.

Quote:

In your closed mind it isn't plausible. You have no proof it isn't
possible,
only opinion, just as I have my opinion.
I'll stick with my opinion.

But it flies in the face of facts. If it works for you, go with it.

Quote:

Carey in Manvel

#34

"Carey Akin" <cmakin (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:

In order for it to even be effective, it would have to dump the extra
pressure built up within three to four laps. It would then have to
maintain that pressure (not lose it) for the remaining green flag run.
The slow leak theory doesn't play out. You could not dump enough of the
pressure through a slow leak to be effective so that the build up won't
effect handling, and then have it maintain a steady pressure for the
remainder of the run. It would take more than just cutting slits in the
bead seat of a tire.

I have to ask anybody who doesn't believe this if they have ANY experience
dealing with tires and racing.

Carey in Manvel

I have no such experience. I am unqualified. I ask a question:

Does the tire actually rotate on the rim in some small clockwise amount due
to the forces imparted on it?

Could this behavior be used to bring a groove in a tire in and out of
contact with a groove or grooves on the rim, so that the sum of both grooves
was sufficient to release air, where one alone was not?

Could this then be used to expel air at certain times and not others?

-Russ.

#35

"Carey Akin" <cmakin (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:

In order for it to even be effective, it would have to dump the extra
pressure built up within three to four laps. It would then have to
maintain that pressure (not lose it) for the remaining green flag run.
The slow leak theory doesn't play out. You could not dump enough of the
pressure through a slow leak to be effective so that the build up won't
effect handling, and then have it maintain a steady pressure for the
remainder of the run. It would take more than just cutting slits in the
bead seat of a tire.

I have to ask anybody who doesn't believe this if they have ANY experience
dealing with tires and racing.

Carey in Manvel

I have no such experience. I am unqualified. I ask a question:

Could a sealant be used that expands to fill a small leak only after
sufficient exposure to temperature?

Could this be used to seal a small leak after a prescribed amount of
time/temperature had been reached in the tire?

-Russ.

#36

"Somebody." <somebody (AT) nospam (DOT) russdoucet.com> wrote

Quote:

I have no such experience. I am unqualified. I ask a question:

Not really unqualified to ask the questions, or state an opinion. I just
wonder about folks that are so ademant about this topic when they have no
practical experience in dealing with the subject.

Quote:

Does the tire actually rotate on the rim in some small clockwise amount
due to the forces imparted on it?

Hopefully not.

Quote:

Could this behavior be used to bring a groove in a tire in and out of
contact with a groove or grooves on the rim, so that the sum of both
grooves was sufficient to release air, where one alone was not?

No.

Quote:

Could this then be used to expel air at certain times and not others?

No. You are also assuming that the teams could get to alter the tires in

this scenario, unseen.

Carey in Manvel

#37

"Somebody." <somebody (AT) nospam (DOT) russdoucet.com> wrote

Quote:

I have no such experience. I am unqualified. I ask a question:

I like you qualification of being unqualified.

Quote:

Could a sealant be used that expands to fill a small leak only after
sufficient exposure to temperature?

I assume you are talking about a more sophisticated "Fix A Flat", and, no.
It would be drawn to any leakage. Again, no control.

Quote:

Could this be used to seal a small leak after a prescribed amount of
time/temperature had been reached in the tire?

It would be easier to make something like this start leaking than stopping.

Carey in Manvel

#38

"Carey Akin" <cmakin (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:

No. You are also assuming that the teams could get to alter the tires in
this scenario, unseen.

They have them for the whole weekend, I believe they could get such time.
Speicalists hover over them for hours during the various phases of
preparation.

-Russ.

#39

On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:08:39 -0500, zenit <zenit (AT) semo (DOT) oz> wrote:

Quote:

On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:32:31 GMT,
"Carey Akin" <cmakin (AT) att (DOT) net
had to open a new box of zerones to say:

"Somebody." <somebody (AT) nospam (DOT) russdoucet.com> wrote in message
news:YUcQg.39346$43.324 (AT) nnrp (DOT) ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca...

I have no such experience. I am unqualified. I ask a question:

Not really unqualified to ask the questions, or state an opinion. I just
wonder about folks that are so ademant about this topic when they have no
practical experience in dealing with the subject.

Does the tire actually rotate on the rim in some small clockwise amount
due to the forces imparted on it?

Hopefully not.
=====
Carey in Manvel
===================================

I've experienced rear tire rotation with sprint cars... On occasion,
the slippage would be marked by a small loss of air pressure... This
happened only on flat track dirt...

! -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
zenit

Wouldn't that take the tire/rim outta balance?

Quote:

G