Re: Trulli to test for Nascar

#31

Fish wrote:

Quote:

On Oct 9, 5:40 am, Ian Rawlings <new... (AT) tarcus (DOT) org.uk> wrote:
On 2009-10-08, TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05ch... (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Yeah, it actually takes skill to drive a NASCAR car, unlike those F1
cars that drive themselves during "follow the leader".
Har, that'll be why our failed F1 drivers do NASCAR while your failed
NASCAR drivers don't do F1 ;-)

More seriously, an F1 car has to have the nuts driven off it before it
even starts to work, the brakes don't work and you've got no grip
until you're setting quite good lap times, then you can really start
to put the hammer down. Just recently a new recruit had problems with
the brakes that appear to have been down to him just not being quick
enough to make them work.

Then of course there's the oval, it's not that popular in this country
other than at local club levels where it's more popular due to the low
track demands. The most popular oval racing in the UK is speedway
racing, on very primitive motorbikes that can only turn one way and do
so sideways on dirt tracks, that's probably as close to NASCAR as we
get!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!http://youtube.com/tarcus69http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/

i believe this clip from top gear, a british automotive show,
describes very well what you're trying to explain about the car
needing to go fast in order to work. for those that don't want to
watch the entire 10 min clip, start around 6 min and it is very easy
to see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo

I believe the point of racing IS to go fast???? How would that guy do in
a CoT at Atlanta? I think he would be in the wall pretty damn quick.

#32

Chad wrote:

Quote:

TS02_05champ wrote:
Chad wrote:
TS02_05champ wrote:
Chad wrote:
mower man wrote:
TS02_05champ wrote:
APLer wrote:

He's
better than most of the NASCAR drivers, but that's hardly a
great achievement for a professional race car driver. He was
trying to beat Hakkinen too much perhaps.
That would explain why ONLY Tony Stewart (from open-wheel) has
won championships in NASCAR and is considered one of the top 3
drivers, right? Just look how well a THREE time open-wheel champ
Sam Hornish is doing. A NASCAR car is much harder to drive than
an open-wheel car, especially an F1 car.
Say that again????
I don't agree that a Cup car is harder to [get in and] drive than
an F1 but I think mastering NASCAR racing is probably more
difficult than F1. It takes 50-100 race starts to be considered
even competent for most drivers.
Are you kidding me? An F1 car is probably the most technically
advanced race car in the world. A NASCAR car is a friggen dinosaur.
I'm sure there are production cars that handle better than a NASCAR
car, especially since the introduction of the CoT. Like I said, look
at the THREE time open-wheel champ Sam Hornish Jr. And Danica
possibly coming to NASCAR in 3 yrs is a joke. There is no way in
hell she could drive a CoT.

BTW, did you see "Tradin' Paint" with Jeff Gordon and JPM? Jeff
Gordon said the hardest part about driving the F1 car was figuring
out what all of the buttons were on the steering wheel. He looked
like a kid in a candy store while behind the wheel of that car.
I didn't see that one. :\

I'm not kidding though. Check out this vid of Gordon and Montoya's
laps during the swap drives and then try and tell me it was easier
for Gordon to step into that Williams than it was for Montoya into
the Chev. (and thats not taking anything away from Gordon)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_IfM5X7QIU

I think you better watch your own video again and *listen* to JG
comments.

I'm sure he had loads of fun (as he said) but during the onboard lap you can
see how hard he is struggling to hit apexes and breaking points. He's all
over the place and quite lucky to not have had an off imho.

He said, the car turns when you turn it, it brakes when you hit the
brakes, and it accelerates when you hit the throttle (paraphrased)
obviously all of the things that a NASCAR car doesn't do well.
Especially braking and turning.

Also, he wasn't familiar with the track, and did you notice how much his
head was moving around? They later added fins to his helmet to help
stabilize his head (don't know why that wasn't done to begin with).

Also I found this "Gordon managed a top lap of 1:16.05 Montoya's
qualification speed for last year's Formula One race at Indianapolis was
1:11.414". Not bad for a car he has never driven and a track that he was
unfamiliar with. I wonder how the lap times would have compared had they
went to Sears Point or Watkins Glen? Two tracks that JG is familiar with
and JPM wasn't at the time.

Also, what about on an oval? I guarantee you that F1 car would be much
easier to drive on an oval than a NASCAR car. Just look at all of the
open-wheel drivers that have failed in NASCAR. How come a THREE time IRL
champion Sam Hornish Jr sucks? What about Mr Ashley Judd? What about
Patrick Carpentier? They couldn't even make it one yr in NASCAR.

Quote:

I'd still bet dollars to donuts that Tony Stewart (and maybe JG too) would
initially be many times more competive in an F1 race than Lewis Hamilton
would be in NASCAR. (Well, if Tony kept away from those donuts).

No doubt about that.

#33

Ian Rawlings wrote:

Quote:

On 2009-10-08, TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05champ (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Yeah, it actually takes skill to drive a NASCAR car, unlike those F1
cars that drive themselves during "follow the leader".

Har, that'll be why our failed F1 drivers do NASCAR while your failed
NASCAR drivers don't do F1 ;-)

F1 is too snotty for American drivers. Even JPM, a Columbian, said those
drivers are a bunch of snobs.

#34

On 2009-10-09, TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05champ (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

F1 is too snotty for American drivers. Even JPM, a Columbian, said those
drivers are a bunch of snobs.

People can seem snobby when you can't cut the mustard.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
http://youtube.com/tarcus69
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/

#35

Chad wrote:

Quote:

mower man wrote:
TS02_05champ wrote:
APLer wrote:

He's
better than most of the NASCAR drivers, but that's hardly a great
achievement for a professional race car driver. He was trying to
beat Hakkinen too much perhaps.
That would explain why ONLY Tony Stewart (from open-wheel) has won
championships in NASCAR and is considered one of the top 3 drivers,
right? Just look how well a THREE time open-wheel champ Sam Hornish
is doing. A NASCAR car is much harder to drive than an open-wheel
car, especially an F1 car.
Say that again????

I don't agree that a Cup car is harder to [get in and] drive than an F1 but
I think mastering NASCAR racing is probably more difficult than F1. It takes
50-100 race starts to be considered even competent for most drivers.

Might that be because NASCAR is extremely close racing? More like FF in

tin-tops than F1.

That's a warning. Regulation too close!

--

Chris

I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900)

#36

Ian Rawlings <news06 (AT) tarcus (DOT) org.uk> wrote in
news:slrnhcuort.9eo.news06 (AT) lounge (DOT) tarcus.org.uk:

Quote:

On 2009-10-09, Fish <godwin.dave8 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

i believe this clip from top gear, a british automotive show,
describes very well what you're trying to explain about the car
needing to go fast in order to work. for those that don't want to
watch the entire 10 min clip, start around 6 min and it is very easy
to see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo

Ah yes, Hammond, I've seen that before. I can't quite remember the
name of the driver I'm thinking of but he's so new he works in a bank
when he's not racing!

That would *have* to be the clip I was referring to. Thanks.

#37

Ian Rawlings <news06 (AT) tarcus (DOT) org.uk> wrote in
news:slrnhcu18s.9eo.news06 (AT) lounge (DOT) tarcus.org.uk:

Quote:

On 2009-10-08, TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05champ (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Yeah, it actually takes skill to drive a NASCAR car, unlike those F1
cars that drive themselves during "follow the leader".

Har, that'll be why our failed F1 drivers do NASCAR while your failed
NASCAR drivers don't do F1 ;-)

More seriously, an F1 car has to have the nuts driven off it before it
even starts to work, the brakes don't work and you've got no grip
until you're setting quite good lap times, then you can really start
to put the hammer down. Just recently a new recruit had problems with
the brakes that appear to have been down to him just not being quick
enough to make them work.

Then of course there's the oval, it's not that popular in this country
other than at local club levels where it's more popular due to the low
track demands. The most popular oval racing in the UK is speedway
racing, on very primitive motorbikes that can only turn one way and do
so sideways on dirt tracks, that's probably as close to NASCAR as we
get!

They certainly did have dirt track motorcycle racing in the states until

recently. Mcqueen was a fan of it. I have no idea if it still exists. It
doesn't seem to get any TV. They have a couple of car equivalents. One
where the cars look like a cross between a land yacht and a lancia stratos
and the other where it looks like a golf cart with an enormous wing on the
top. Every turn is a power slide and the dirt shines from all the polish
it gets.

You ca see an example of each at the top of this page.

http://www.worldofoutlaws.com/sprint/

It's still oval racing, so I don't personally watch it, but it most
definitely isn't NASCAR.

#38

APLer wrote:

Quote:

Ian Rawlings <news06 (AT) tarcus (DOT) org.uk> wrote in
news:slrnhcu18s.9eo.news06 (AT) lounge (DOT) tarcus.org.uk:

On 2009-10-08, TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05champ (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Yeah, it actually takes skill to drive a NASCAR car, unlike those F1
cars that drive themselves during "follow the leader".
Har, that'll be why our failed F1 drivers do NASCAR while your failed
NASCAR drivers don't do F1 ;-)

More seriously, an F1 car has to have the nuts driven off it before it
even starts to work, the brakes don't work and you've got no grip
until you're setting quite good lap times, then you can really start
to put the hammer down. Just recently a new recruit had problems with
the brakes that appear to have been down to him just not being quick
enough to make them work.

Then of course there's the oval, it's not that popular in this country
other than at local club levels where it's more popular due to the low
track demands. The most popular oval racing in the UK is speedway
racing, on very primitive motorbikes that can only turn one way and do
so sideways on dirt tracks, that's probably as close to NASCAR as we
get!

They certainly did have dirt track motorcycle racing in the states until
recently. Mcqueen was a fan of it. I have no idea if it still exists. It
doesn't seem to get any TV. They have a couple of car equivalents. One
where the cars look like a cross between a land yacht and a lancia stratos
and the other where it looks like a golf cart with an enormous wing on the
top. Every turn is a power slide and the dirt shines from all the polish
it gets.

You ca see an example of each at the top of this page.

http://www.worldofoutlaws.com/sprint/

It's still oval racing, so I don't personally watch it, but it most
definitely isn't NASCAR.

You are talking about Sprint cars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZGvsMb0qtE

I believe the "land yacht and a lancia stratos" (lol) you are referring
to is dirt modified.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flmZkjC6w5U

#39

TS02_05champ wrote:

Quote:

APLer wrote:
Ian Rawlings <news06 (AT) tarcus (DOT) org.uk> wrote in
news:slrnhcu18s.9eo.news06 (AT) lounge (DOT) tarcus.org.uk:
On 2009-10-08, TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05champ (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Yeah, it actually takes skill to drive a NASCAR car, unlike those F1
cars that drive themselves during "follow the leader".
Har, that'll be why our failed F1 drivers do NASCAR while your failed
NASCAR drivers don't do F1 ;-)

More seriously, an F1 car has to have the nuts driven off it before it
even starts to work, the brakes don't work and you've got no grip
until you're setting quite good lap times, then you can really start
to put the hammer down. Just recently a new recruit had problems with
the brakes that appear to have been down to him just not being quick
enough to make them work.

Then of course there's the oval, it's not that popular in this country
other than at local club levels where it's more popular due to the low
track demands. The most popular oval racing in the UK is speedway
racing, on very primitive motorbikes that can only turn one way and do
so sideways on dirt tracks, that's probably as close to NASCAR as we
get!

They certainly did have dirt track motorcycle racing in the states until
recently. Mcqueen was a fan of it. I have no idea if it still exists. It
doesn't seem to get any TV. They have a couple of car equivalents. One
where the cars look like a cross between a land yacht and a lancia
stratos
and the other where it looks like a golf cart with an enormous wing on
the
top. Every turn is a power slide and the dirt shines from all the
polish it gets.
You ca see an example of each at the top of this page.

http://www.worldofoutlaws.com/sprint/

It's still oval racing, so I don't personally watch it, but it most
definitely isn't NASCAR.

You are talking about Sprint cars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZGvsMb0qtE

I believe the "land yacht and a lancia stratos" (lol) you are referring
to is dirt modified.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flmZkjC6w5U

And great stuff! Loved it from way back.

--

Chris

I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900)

#40

On Oct 10, 7:21*am, mower man <nos... (AT) f2s (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

Chad wrote:
mower man wrote:
TS02_05champ wrote:
APLer wrote:

*> He's
better than most of the NASCAR drivers, but that's hardly a great
achievement for a professional race car driver. He was trying to
beat Hakkinen too much perhaps.
That would explain why ONLY Tony Stewart (from open-wheel) has won
championships in NASCAR and is considered one of the top 3 drivers,
right? Just look how well a THREE time open-wheel champ Sam Hornish
is doing. A NASCAR car is much harder to drive than an open-wheel
car, especially an F1 car.
Say that again????

I don't agree that a Cup car is harder to [get in and] drive than an F1but
I think mastering NASCAR racing is probably more difficult than F1. It takes
50-100 race starts to be considered even competent for most drivers.

Might that be because NASCAR is extremely close racing? More like FF in
tin-tops than F1.

That's a warning. Regulation too close!
--
Chris

G'day,
Comparing an F1 with a NASCAR is like comparing a Battleship with a
JetFighter. Neither is better or worse, they are just two different
animals.
---
Move from a Jet to a Ship and you need re-training, some blokes more,
some less. Same with F1 to NASCAR.
----
A tin-top would be a lot closer to a FF than the NASCAR/F1 comparison.
I think a TinTop driver, no I'm sure, would have more difficulty
moving to a FF than the reverse. The big difference is the knife edge
graph of adhesion. In a FF if your not on the edge your slow but go
over and you're off. In the tintop you can float well passed adhesion
and easily bring it back. That doesn't mean a tintop driver can't
learn and become a good FF driver.
---
I've seen drivers get into an open wheeler and throw the car around,
thinking that they must be quick. Not so, if you are going quickly you
cannot throw an open wheeler around without falling off.

EG. I was at a go-kart track testing with a kid I was helping. A young
bloke turned up and started sliding all over the place having fun. The
kid thought he was quick so i popped on a helmet and went out about
half a lap behind, in two laps I'd caught and passed him. He didn't
like that and stopped sliding, settled down trying to catch me. It was
a good lesson for the kid, he could see that while you're sliding you
lose traction and speed. Jeese I love Karting. btw, the ones you hire
have no relationship to a racing kart.

Anyway to my way of thinking comparing F1 drivers to NASCAR drivers is
like comparing pilots to sailors, there is no comparison.

beers,
build