Good grief, talk about towing the party line...

Come on Larry, Darrell, and Darrell, I'm not saying do anything with
the restrictor-plate or take away from the "pack racing" the fans
apparently like, but fans DID get hurt.

Can you relax your lip-lock on NASCAR's posterior long enough to say
fans should not be hit with debris and the catch fence OBVIOUSLY did
not work well enough?!?

DISCUSS THIS TOPIC AT...
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/NASCAR-Group

Could be mistaken but I believe most of what hit the fans was actually
pieces of the catchfence itself. Is it a question of CAN we make a
better catchfence, or whether NASCAR cares to try.

I do know it would cost money and, once available, there would be
pressure to install the new fence system at every track on the
circuit.

I think NASCAR simply does not want to go down that road. And,
obviously, Larr, Darr, and Darr have been given their talking
points...

On Fri, 01 May 2009 12:51:36 -0400, "John Miller" <n1umj (AT) verizon (DOT) net>
wrote:

It often seems like NASCAR's concern for the fans goes only as far as
the money they spend.

On Fri, 1 May 2009 10:52:12 -0700 (PDT), amanda horton
<georgia_dolphin (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

In article A. Jones <ajones (AT) intrtek (DOT) com> wrote:

I don't know that they really need to do anything.
The catch fence did what is reasonably expected.
It kept a car from going into the stands,
and held injuries down to a bare minimun.
Nothing will ever create a completely foolproof environment.
Given how many people attend NASCAR races,
and how many get hurt, I'd say their record is pretty good.
And that reasonable, expected precautions are taken.

On May 1, 11:47*am, A. Jones <ajo... (AT) intrtek (DOT) com> wrote:
That would be "toeing" the line.... ;-)

N.

On Fri, 1 May 2009 12:55:55 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
<nancy-dooley (AT) uiowa (DOT) edu> wrote:

I stand corrected.

On Fri, 01 May 2009 19:06:09 GMT, Chuck_Steak (AT) nospam (DOT) com (Chuck Steak)
wrote:

- No one was killed or maimed, so everything is just fine...

Try telling that to the fans who were hit in the face with large fast
flying pieces of metal. One of the seven injured fans suffered a
broken jaw.

- That's what they get for sitting in those seats; they knew, or
should have known, it could happen; it's THEIR fault...

Would you feel that way if it were your family, wife and kids, sitting
in those seats?

As it was in the wake of DE's death, this is another example of the
backward, dinosaur, slow to change, mentality in NASCAR. I'm sure some
fans still feel helmets and seat belts are sissy.

Why not just spend the money and make the fence better. I mean really,
what would it hurt. Would that destroy your enjoyment of the sport, or
is fan injury part of the excitement for you.

NASCAR would get away with your mentality 20 years ago but it should
not prevail in this SUPPOSED era of safety. Does safety apply only to
the drivers and crews, or do the fans also count for something?

What NASCAR race was that recently were a fan got hit by a car hood
flying over the fence? That was not very long ago, and now there's
this.

Are we waiting for a fan or two to get killed? Why not wait for three
dead fans like at Charlotte (IndyCar) in 2000, and at Michigan (Champ
Car) the year before. That's three dead EACH incident due to flying
debris.

Am I overreacting, overreaching? Could the force needed to break an
adult jaw also put a small child into a coma? You seem all too willing
to find out.

Change WILL come but NASCAR will not do the right thing on its own,
without pressure. Unfortunately, it will take a few lawsuits from
injured spectators to get things done.

In article A. Jones <ajones (AT) intrtek (DOT) com> wrote:
Pretty much... not to say they shouldn't look at the situation, but
you have to be realistic about the whole thing.
there is reasonable assumption of risk when you go to any sporting
event.
And precautions to keep a whole car out of the stands,
or something like a wheel are obviously present.
You cannot foresee, or prevent every scenario.
When you go to dirt tracks, for instance, it's not unusual at all
to get hit with small stones..
You "could" get an en eye injury... But you know that you can get hit
with a stone.. the first mouthful of dirt you get,
and then you look at the size of the fence mesh,
and you realize that something the size of a stone can go through.

By and large, NASCAR auto racing fans are safer than a lot of other sports.
If they do not require 30' lexan shields, or screens to protect
baseball fans, or hockey fans,
I see no reason to require/expect racetracks,
to go way, way beyond reasonable safety expectations...

That person new that auto racing has crashes.
And that pieces can go flying.
If you go into it thinking it is impossible for "ME" to get hurt,
then you were the one that was taking safety for granted.
To think that you are 100% safe, in anything in life,
is a misake.
It doesn't mean I think you "deserve" to get hurt!!!!
So I don't want to hear it.
It means you have to be aware of what you are getting into!

It's not "their fault" that an accident happened.
It's not the track's fault either.. but..
That's how it works legally....
You KNEW there was a chance of something happening,
and you agreed that the track took reasonable precautions,
which they did, to keep you from getting injured...

For one, we wouldn't be sitting there, so it's moot.

that's ridiculous.
Those same people would think it okay to drink a rack of Bud
before the race.
Those are not "fans".

It's easy for you to say shit like that,
but you don't offer any solutions...


A 3500lb. car going well over 180mph, got airborne, and bounced off
a fence, and one person got a broken jaw...
The driver got out of the car, and ran across the finish line.
I don't know exactly what you expect from such a crash...
Talladega usually has well over 100,000 fans watching the races,
there were days well over 150,000....
take all those races, and how many people were there,
versus how many have sustained serious injuries...
It would be one of the safest events you could ever attend,
where there was a realistic chance of getting something
into the stands....
Fans routinely get hauled to the hospital at Hockey games,
and Baseball games.... every week... where is the uproar?
Why aren't you campaigning for those poor people?
You don't care about people in other sports?
Isn't the "cause" the same?
To protect that little kid you like to use as an example?


And now they have them cabled to the car...

I think so..

I don't think that is the case.
They have done a lot of things without being sued to provide
better safety for drivers, and fans.
They didn't get sued when they installed larger cables and taller fences
to begin with... no car (Allison) went through the fence, yet they made them
safer... They've been tested several times since, and the fences have held.

I think going to a race, is extremely safe.
The only way you can eliminate any chance of getting hurt at an event,
is to stay home... but...
you could trip over your cat, and fall down the stairs...
Better chance of that, then getting a broken bone at a race...

After sampling just a few paragraphs, I realize responding in-depth is
pointless; thickheaded, LONG-WINDED.

You're willing to see another half dozen, or more, fans get hit in the
face with debris. And again sometime after that, and then again, and
so on... You don't understand it doesn't matter how much time goes by
in-between incidents, and just one injury is too many.

Maybe some trackside debris could find YOUR face someday. Maybe your
jaw will be broken, or worse. I bet your attitude would not be so
callous then.

On Sat, 02 May 2009 01:35:09 GMT, Chuck_Steak (AT) nospam (DOT) com (Chuck Steak)
wrote:

"A. Jones" <ajones (AT) intrtek (DOT) com> wrote

you are many times more likely to get hurt on your way to or from a racing
event... maybe the sanctioning body should be responsible for that too....
and my roof leaked once while watching a race, I wonder if NASCAR will
reimburse me for the repair costs...