Greetings:
I have tried to find an answer by reading back through older posts, but
didn't see my particular problem addressed. If it has been, I
appologise.
My wife's work car is a Pontiac 6000le station wagon, 1987, with 2.8 l
multiport fuel injected, A/C, power everything.
After checking a lot of things, I narrowed it down to cyl #4... The
spark is weak, missing, erratic, you name it. This became especially
noticable after it got wet recently. I did everything I know of to dry
it out. (At one time, I was a certified small motors field mechanic,
not multi-cylinder, water colled, computer controled automotive
engines, to be sure, but some things are still the same)
These efforts worked. one time. But not this time. I have subbed out
new, and known good, spark plug wires and spark plugs, and found that
it is cyl #4 that is the problem. This engine has a "spark pak", rather
than points and distributer. There are six 'towers' that plug wires
attach to, but I do not know if this is a 'wasted spark' system or not.
(I understand how that works, it ain't new, even to me!)
What I don't know is, how, or even if, I can/should try to replace the
coil(s) and/or any electronics that controls it (them). (I should
mention, I have a progressive form of MS, and can no longer work, and a
lot of this auto type work is not easy for me anymore. Nor do I have a
lot in the way of tools, or diagnostic type equipment) Money is also an
issue, being on Social INsecurity, due to my disability, plus, we live
way out in the sticks, far away from any friendly repair shops. (Or
even parts houses) What are the landmines I might run into if I try to
do this job myself? What should I look out for? What special tools, if
any, would I need? Would I really need to buy OEM replacment parts? Or
are there any acceptable aftermarket brands that I could rely upon?
(This car is our only decent one as far as gas mileage goes... My
wheelchair van is a gas guzzler big time!) Can anyone explain to me,
why, if this IS a wasted spark system, ONLY #4 seems to be affected?
We have owned this car for about 8 years, and, for such a cheap, and
high mileage piece of GM crap, has been actually pretty reliable. Only
real repairs we've had to have done: An injector, fuel pressure
regulator, crank sensor, vacuume hoses, starter, and all the usual
little things. (Batt, tires, exhaust, brakes, Etc.)
This car has another, possibly related, issue. (Or not, I can't be
sure) It looses coolant. It had a leaking heater core, which I thought
I had cured. (No more antifreeze mist on the inside of the windshield,
puddle on passenger's side floor, you know) The exhaust does smell a
but off, but then, it always has, even when we first got it, when it
ran fine. It does not seem to burn or use oil. But the coolant recovery
tank neither gains, nor looses, any coolant. But it's going somewhere!
No obvious leaks I can find. Cap is good too. Could a leak be hidden
AND be leaking onto/into electronics for the spark control or computer?
I can't seem to get the spark stuff dried out. I wiped everything down
with alcohol and a clean rag, sprayed with silicone, swapped out (One
cyl at a time) with known good/new plugs and wires, and did all the
obvious things I know to do. It's ONLY cyl #4 that has the missing/weak
sparks. Watching with a plug grounded to block, I see sparks that seem
to be 'double', (Wasted spark?) sometimes single, sometimes missing for
rather long periods of time, and often miscolored. (Anything from
yellow to blue, and anything inbetween) If this IS a wasted spark
system, why would ONLY number 4 be affected? That one, I really don't
get.
Once in awhile, it will even 'jump' away from the grounded electrode,
seeking a return to ground via a longer path. (This may be due to
engine vibrations causing my temporary grounded plug to loose a good
ground, I suppose) I tried to make sure I had plug grounded well,
though. (I actually TIED the plug down to an engine mount)
What do I need to fix? Any help will be greatly appreciated! (Please
remember, I have limited income and resources, I can't just go out and
buy some fancy engine analizer, code reader, or whatever, even if we
had such around here. Which we don't. We have ONE gas station, which
dosen't even have a for-pay air hose!)
Thanks to all for taking the time to read this.
Sincerely:
Junkman
aka Chris
Kingsley, Iowa, USA (Where in the world is THAT?.... Nobody knows!)

Ok, you have the V-6 model I assume, and you have a problem with cyl #4
spark. Though I cannot picture your exact setup, you need to remove the coil
pack from the plate it sits on. I do believe it may require a torx bit of
some sort. Should have a couple wires underneath. Check for corrosion on
these connectors. Then check the coil pack main wire harness for any
corrosion. If this does not solve the spark problem, then you may have to
replace the coil pack. I found one for you at Autozone for 21.99. There are
online parts stores that you can order from and they will ship direct to
your door.
Your coolant leak may be a bad head gasket or intake manifold gasket leak.
Check your oil to see if its getting inside. If you find coolant mixed in
with the oil, might as well dig a grave and bury that car. Coolant and oil
will turn acidic and eat your main bearings inside the engine. Please keep
us posted on any findings you have.
Mike

"Junkman" <therealjunkman (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

"Junkman" <therealjunkman (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

with 125,000 miles. ; ) Just kidding... I'll probably be selling it in
March or so, but you'll probably not want it because the A/C does not work
(as well as several other things) and it is the much less reliable 2.5
(4-cylinder.). Mine's got a CD player. Mine didn't want to start and
didn't one day last year in December when we had that week of sub-zero
temperatures. Probably 80% of the GM A-body cars I still see standing have
the 2.8 in them, and of all the GM A-body vehicles, the 6000 is the one I
see the least although I think it is the one of the four (Buick Century,
Chevy Celebrity, Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera, and 6000) that looks the best
though...

And your point is? Lets stay on topic here.


"Travis King" <Anonymous (AT) none (DOT) com> wrote

Hey, Thanks all.
I did the things mentioned, and a few more besides. No antifreeze in
the oil. That's one of the very first things I would have noticed. (I
know what to look for)
As for my intermitent spark prob on #4 cyc, it was indeed, the coil
pak. Although removing it and careful inspection showed nothing out of
the ordinary, and very careful cleaning and drying before putting it
back in, it was still FUBAR. (If you have to ask, I can't explain...
It's an 'engineering' term... Sorta. For delicate ears, I suggest:
"Fouled up beyond all recognition" You use your own imagination) Oh, it
was a metric 5.5 socket needed to remove that. Two bolts/screws. One
top, one bottom. Top was hardest to get in or out. (Can't see it, have
to use braile method)
Anyhow, I got a new coil pack, and that solved that particular problem.
For now. As for all the other problems, I think I need to raise the
hood and drive a new car in underneath. I had to drive yesterday to the
VA hospital, which is about 110 miles oneway. The car drove alright,
but still idles rough, (to the point that the oil light will come on at
red lights) and the "Low Coolant" light keeps coming on, (No matter
speed or position of car, or RPM) although I know damned well I filled
it FULL before I left. (And yes, I ran it long enough to get air out
first)
A few years ago, we had to have some work done on the engine that I
didn't know how to do, namely, a 'fuel presure regulator' once, and an
injector before that. (this engine has a common fuel rail, and
injectors at each cyl. Have to remove intake manifold just to get at
injectors) The bozo I hired, (to "save" money, NOT!) broke a lot of
vacuume lines and stuff, and I ended up having to have everything he
did re-done, plus repairing the damage he did. The car has never run
the same since. The first "new" presure reg was bad, and a second "new"
one was purchased. (Yes, I checked, it really was new, as well as could
be determined. Looked new, had reciept, had old one, which looked dirty
and old, so I had to believe him) Anyways, I suspect there is something
to do with the intake manifold gasket, since all vacuume hoses have
been replaced by a competent shop. (And I can SEE most of them, and
they indeed look OK) The car just is rough, especially at idle, and
never develops the power it should. Still getting about 25 mpg though,
on South Dakota highways. (65/75 speed limits, depending on
construction zones) This, for a wagon, ain't so bad. But could be
better? Since I have to go to the VA hosp on regular basis, (monthly or
more often) ANY mileage improvment is good. (My wheelchair van gets
about 14mpg, on a good day, downhill, with a tail wind!) The VA does
not reimburse me for travel expenses, so I'm on my own there. Anyways,
THANKS to everyone who took the time to write, and for all the advice.
It's hard to get by on social security, even being a disabled Viet Nam
era Veteran, and raising 3 young kids. Otherwise, I'd just invest in a
newer, more fuel efficent vehicle. But the cost is out of sight. BYW,
the coil pack was bought at a "local" parts house for about $21.86
w/tax. (Driving there and back cost almost that much just for the
&*%&@^* Gasoline!)
Again, thanks. It's good to know, that there are still people in this
crazy world willing to help out their fellow man. (or woman, I ain't
racist! Hell I MARRIED a woman... Grin)
Peace be with us, and may they all come home... NOW!
Sincerely:
Junkman
aka Chris

LAWSON wrote: