So you justify your comments by the even worse comments of others? Yes,
there can plenty of swearing and rudeness in these car newsgroups but that
doesn't mean you have to add to it.

Your piffle below does not merit any detailed reply (a shame, since you
started the thread quite interestingly). I have to remind (inform) you that
the Merc C-Class is a top-selling vehicle in Germany (no. 2 or 3) and
therefore driven by a cross-section of the car-driving population. Similar
applies to BMW 3. These cars are all a dime a dozen where I live in London.
Even Saab (GM) tried the 'exclusivity in the company car park' angle but
where I live the 'rare' cabrios are often seen. Probably because they are
cheaper than the nearest BMW and Merc equivalents.

At one stage the average age of the BMW driver was a bit lower than than of
the Merc driver but I suggest that had more to do with the higher prices of
the Merc entry models. This changed with the 190 / C-Class and now the
A-Class.

BMW was very clever in marketing the two-door cars as something special and
charging more for them, something that others have copied.

Neither Merc nor BMW have any exclusivity whatsoever unless one has the very
big engines or the big bodies. However, as you may know, big cars (and
big-engined) ones depreciate much more rapidly that smaller ones, so it is
possible to buy a used E-Class or BMW 5 for a reasonable price. Just a
decision on insurance and running costs has to be made.

Audi has managed to acquire a great image in the UK a long time ago whereas
in Germany it was for years still just a jumped-up Volkswagen. However,
product quality has apparently risen so far that Audi deserves to be spoken
of in the same breath as Merc and BMW. Personally I find the shape boring,
even if the A8 is imposing, but that is just a personal opinion.

Maybe you buy the ads. Ultimate Driving Machine. Vorsprung durch Technik
(Audi). Fine. Buy a subscription for the house publications.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"RichAsianKid" <richasiankid (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

mcbrue wrote:
http://www.fl-sprinter.com/Pass/pass.html
http://www.dodge.com/sprinter/index.html
old model, successor went in production lately

new model here
http://sprinter-microsite.syzygy.de/2/start/en-GB/


Juergen

A lot of what you said actually jives with my original post, namely
when a commodity becomes common enough and readily accessible enough
across wide segments of society, it will no longer be valued. The key
to prestige and the establishment of hierarchy is, I think, defined by
what your neighbors cannot have - the handicap principle that I have
quoted in my original post. It's part and parcel with a not so rosy but
realistic view of human nature, where genie asks farmer 'I can grant
you one wish, but everyone else in your village will have twice of what
you have.' Farmer thinks for a minute and wishes half his crops
destroyed. You're therefore very correct about the fact that BMWs and
Mercedes are so common in Europe and I concur that they are no longer
prestige vehicles. The removal of engine designations in Europe and the
availability of 2nd hand cars, 3rd hand cars etc - further adds noise
to the signal - did the guy pay half price for that? Is he merely a
poseur? I say guy for a reason - women are motivated by different
factors and cars which are most desired by men are quite different from
cars which are most desired by women.

With respect models available, to maintain the 'prestige' of these
brands, you'll notice that a lot of the lower models that are available
in Europe are not available in North America. The E200, E240, E280 of
Mercedes, for instance - quite common for taxicabs in Germany - are not
available in the US and Canada I believe. Likewise with the lower
3-series models like 318, 320 etc - again assuming that these are the
correct designations. This again ties in with my original post about
prestige and reputation - lower classes of automobiles may lead to a
loss of prestige and the tarnishing of reputation of some of these
brands that their respective companies are obviously trying to preserve
- and marketing strategy is therefore different. Toyota has to do the
same by inventing a new brand - AFAIK in Japan there is no 'Lexus', and
it's only marketed as such in North America to give that aura of luxury
and sophistication to lure buyers. People at the higher end of the auto
market don't buy cars for practicality or even for fun - the
psychological element of the handicap principle and of conspicuous
consumption probably plays an increasing role.

Why cars? As discussed, because cars need to be show pieces to a
certain extent - in affluent North American societies most people can
afford a car - any car - and thus they lose their discriminating value
of the financial health of the driver. Still, why cars? You touched on
this: depreciation - and contrary to some who deride people purchasing
expensive cars that depreciate quickly, lambasting them as impractical
etc, it is *precisely* this fact that drive some (young guys
especially) to purchase them. Even poor people may pay a huge mortgage
in order to upgrade from a house to a mansion - because (1) it's an
investment, so it makes financial sense in the long run, and (2) it's
practical, because you reside in your residence many hours a day. But
poor people will not purchase very expensive cars because they are not
an investment, do not make financial sense in the long run, are not
practical, and many people do not spend hours and hours in their cars.
These two qualities - *depreciation* and *impracticality* - fit with
the handicap principle perfectly. Expensive cars scream out: "look how
much I have, and how much I can afford to waste." Only truly
"financially healthy" people would be able to afford such "guady men's
jewellery" - an indicator of hierarchy and status in a man's world, and
a sign of financial health and mating suitability in a woman's world.

And cars' modus operandi fit the above psychology so perfectly: they're
a very *visual* and *conspicuous* demonstration for all to see - like
the deer antlers discussed initially. But most importantly - it's
*portable* unlike real estate - flashing your zip code around just
doesn't have the same wowing and stunning psychological effect on other
men and women as driving a Ferrari. It's almost a secondary sexual
characteristic if you will - in more ways than one, you are what you
drive, as you're almost advertising your Darwinian fitness. Well, sort
of. Which, often, pays off biologically: BMW may mean Bayerische
Motoren Werke in Germany, but translated into English, it stands for
for Brings Me Women - again as quoted before:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4891758

Cheers!!
RAK

Dori A Schmetterling wrote:

Good, back on track of polite ruminations... ;-)

- The farmer's wish indeed shows the dark side of human nature. Also why
Coomunist apparatchiks were happy with their relatively poor lot because
they were better off than most of the populace.
The sensible wish is to ask for an infinite number of wishes.

- About brand reflection, the opposite is possible. E.g. Mercedes used the
'prestige' and technical advance of its top models to reflect on its mundane
ones. BMW is not much different. A large chunk of its sales (40%?) is the
3 Series, and I bet most of those are around the 2-litre engine mark.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"RichAsianKid" <richasiankid (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
Good answer!

Do BMW drivers in general buy higher models of a lower class, vs
Mercedes drivers who buy lower models of a higher class? Not sure!
North Americans do not get 2 liter BMW/Mercedes models.

In Germany a taxicab driver in his 50s told me: porsche > mercedes >
bmw > audi in terms of 'respect' locally. Who knows. See, maybe it's
defined by best. Porsche has the GT, Mercedes the SLR. (Is GT > SLR?)
BMW has/had the McLaren?

Juergen . wrote:
and the funny thing is they are still doing reviews of
the old version that is no longer in production.....

http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/...py?artid=65616

The S class would not fit but a couple of Smarts would fit.

The boyz would be very happy, but you would have to throw a
nice leather couch or two in the back.

You could probably get a dozen Asian girls back there too.

http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/...py?artid=65616

..

greek_philosophizer wrote:

and I forgot to add that the one in the picture is only the middle size
van,
the old model has a longer version and the new model has an even longer
version so there would be plenty of room to keep very large containers
cold....

The annoying thing is if you do not want a white one you have to
special
order it and that takes months.

..

Juergen, what's the differenece between the Dodge Sprinter and the Benz version? We have MANY here in Vancouver, some of them are
Mercedes branded. I figure they had to sell it here as a Dodge or all the Dodge Ram van driving yahoos wouldn't buy a benz.

cp

"Juergen ." <jaguare (AT) bigfoot (DOT) com> wrote

Lawrence Lugar wrote:

I just shake my head at those clowns who don't capitalize and who
leave a 212-line-long post for a 4-line comment.

it's a casual conversation, dumbass....forgive me if i don't punctualize my
sentences correct, mr. english teacher







"dizzy" <dizzy (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid> wrote