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After changing spark plugs I get lower gas milege
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#1
 
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After changing spark plugs I get lower gas milege -
07-30-2004
, 09:20 PM
#2
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Hi, This is my first post: I did not know that Saab has so crappie spark plugs. My previous car was a Chevy Cavalier 96 from 0 miles now has a 100K. When I changed the first set of spark plugs at 60K, even though the manual said every 100K, on the Chevy they were like new. When I got my Saab 9-3 '99 with 36K mile I thought it has the same king of plugs, without consulting the manual (who reads the manual anyway). So with that in mind, day before yesterday my Saab started to cough in the lower rpm, with every shift. I said myself: maybe is the muffler that I replaced last week, maybe not. I checked the spark plugs and I could not believe: they were toasted, the hook that comes around was almost gone completely on all four. So, because I could not find Bosh I went with the original NKG crap....Needless to say the Check Engine light came ON, so I had to disconnect the battery for 15 minutes to reset it. Anyway getting to the point: now, after changing the spark plugs everything seems to be OK, but my gas mileage went from a 25.5 mpg (at least) to a 24 mpg (at most).....!?!!??? What can it be wrong??? |
Did you gap the plugs to the specified gap?
I've had great luck with NGK and lousy luck with Bosch Platinums, seems many
turbo engines just refuse to run well with them.
#3
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plugs, without consulting the manual (who reads the manual anyway). So with that in mind, day before yesterday my Saab started to cough in the lower rpm, with every shift. I said myself: maybe is the muffler that I replaced last week, maybe not. I checked the spark plugs and I could not believe: they were toasted, the hook that comes around was almost gone completely on all four. So, because I could not find Bosh I went with the original NKG crap....Needless to say the Check Engine light came ON, so I had to disconnect the battery for 15 minutes to reset it. |
short time. Only use the correct NGK-type plugs and as mentioned, gapped
right.
NGK BCPR-6ES11 if it's a turbo. And gapped at 1,0 mm.
Cheers!
#4
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NGK BCPR-6ES11 if it's a turbo. And gapped at 1,0 mm. Cheers! Agreed, but how to spread the message? NGK spark plugs look like 100 years old while BOSCH plugs look much fancier. Even worse, the Haynes manual lists Champion spark plugs for the car. |
They should expect a lot of Saab owners eventually changing the plugs by
themselves, therefore it should be pointed out, everytime the sell a new
Saab.
Besides that, the factory should apply a big bright sticker under the hood,
stating: "ONLY USE NGK PLUGS".
And a writing on the very first pages of the usersmanual as well.
Hmmm, maybe I should send a mail to my contact at the factory and suggest
this all. It's in their interest as well.
)Cheers!
#5
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"gogoasa" <someone (AT) microsoft (DOT) com> skrev i en meddelelse news:BtCOc.57663$vN3.53261 (AT) twister (DOT) rdc-> When I got my Saab 9-3 '99 with 36K mile I thought it has the same king of plugs, without consulting the manual (who reads the manual anyway). So with that in mind, day before yesterday my Saab started to cough in the lower rpm, with every shift. I said myself: maybe is the muffler that I replaced last week, maybe not. I checked the spark plugs and I could not believe: they were toasted, the hook that comes around was almost gone completely on all four. So, because I could not find Bosh I went with the original NKG crap....Needless to say the Check Engine light came ON, so I had to disconnect the battery for 15 minutes to reset it. NEVER EVER run a DI-Saab on Bosch plugs. You can fry your DI-module i a very short time. Only use the correct NGK-type plugs and as mentioned, gapped right. NGK BCPR-6ES11 if it's a turbo. And gapped at 1,0 mm. Cheers! |
old while BOSCH plugs look much fancier. Even worse, the Haynes manual lists
Champion spark plugs for the car.
#6
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:45:13 GMT, Johannes H Andersen johs (AT) nsuvuooiaiosizefitterwiuoveswernuaz (DOT) com> wrote: NGK BCPR-6ES11 if it's a turbo. And gapped at 1,0 mm. Or, in the USA, 1.0mm :-) Agreed, but how to spread the message? NGK spark plugs look like 100 years old while BOSCH plugs look much fancier. Even worse, the Haynes manual lists Champion spark plugs for the car. Champion pays Haynes for the advertisement (also the color chart in rear of those books with spark plug wear pictures). |
the internet), in my case only I could not find anything else than Champion
at the auto parts stores (I was looking for something more expensive than
1.25$). And then I was going to the dealer to ask them to read my engine
codes anyway (of course they are full right now, but I can try next week),
so I just picked up 4 plugs NGK.
Here is what I got in response at the same post on SaabCentral:
Welcome aboard and let me be the first to throw out a warning that you will
no doubt hear 80 times in the course of this thread. Saabs are picky about
their plugs! Since The Trionic engine management system was designed around
NGK plugs and their particular characteristics, most people opt to stay with
them. Most are convinced tiny variations between NGK and different brands of
plugs make a big difference to the ECU. I'm not convinced...and that's why
everybody loves me.
You are driving a turbocharged car now...they are in general a tad more hard
on spark plugs. Perhaps the reason your plugs seemed okay in your cavalier
after 100k miles was because they may have been platinum. Platinum plugs
last longer as they have a higher melting point than the nickel ones, but at
the expensive of a bit more electrical resistence.
The high heat in a turbocharged car will wear plugs faster, so the stock NGK
plugs (nickel) go pretty quickly. Many of us here (notably myself) obsess
about the plugs (thanks SPATL!) and rotate them out frequently. I bet I
haven't had a set of plugs yet I've kept in more than 10,000 miles.
Additionally, the gap on these plugs erodes relatively quickly. Pull those
plugs out and make sure they were gapped correctly to begin with. Go with
something between .035 and .040 inches for the gap. Anything more and you'll
get a bit of a high boost misfire.
You'll find Saab-friendly spark plugs are hard to find because of the fact
that Saabs require resistor core spark plugs. Since Saab uses a direct
ignition system utilizing a coil over plug system integrated into a
cassette, there are no plug wires to suppress radio/electrical interference.
Therefore, the the plugs themself use a resitor core to suppress spark
energy and prevent it from bleeding back up toward the ECU. You MUST use
these resistor plugs or ECU go BOOM BOOM.
FYI, if you HAVE to use Bosch, Bosch makes the Super plug with a resistor
core. Just check out the side of the box to make sure it says resistor core.
bkrell
#7
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Hi, This is my first post: |
Quote:
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I did not know that Saab has so crappie spark plugs. |
Quote:
|
My previous car was a Chevy Cavalier 96 from 0 miles now has a 100K. When I changed the first set of spark plugs at 60K, even though the manual said every 100K, on the Chevy they were like new. |
Quote:
|
When I got my Saab 9-3 '99 with 36K mile I thought it has the same king of plugs, without consulting the manual (who reads the manual anyway). |
ignored. Not looking good, "someone".
Quote:
|
So with that in mind, day before yesterday my Saab started to cough in the lower rpm, with every shift. I said myself: maybe is the muffler that I replaced last week, maybe not. |
you're actually, you know, looking for a solution, rather than just here
to make noise.
Quote:
|
I checked the spark plugs and I could not believe: they were toasted, the hook that comes around was almost gone completely on all four. So, because I could not find Bosh I went with the original NKG crap.... |
the case. Could be "troll", could be "clueless". Let's read on and see
if we can determine, shall we?
Quote:
|
Needless to say the Check Engine light came ON, so I had to disconnect the battery for 15 minutes to reset it. Anyway getting to the point: now, after changing the spark plugs everything seems to be OK, but my gas mileage went from a 25.5 mpg (at least) to a 24 mpg (at most).....!?!!??? |
subtlety.
Quote:
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What can it be wrong??? |
that it's Saab's crappy fault and NGK crappy this and whatever else, it's
clear that you're...let's put this gently...not Saab's target market, and
would be happier elsewhere. However, seems to me you're just gathering
the topics most likely to elecit heated discussion in this group, all in
one message, which smells pretty troll-ish to me.
If you're actually serious and can't imagine why I'm giving you a hard
time, think about your communication approach. "Hi, I've got a (year/model)
Saab, my plugs wore out at x,000 miles and with the new ones my milage has
gone down by an insignificant, meaningless amount. Am I doing anything
wrong here"?
#8
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I believe that Saab-dealers are doing a very poor job, adresse this issue. They should expect a lot of Saab owners eventually changing the plugs by themselves, therefore it should be pointed out, everytime the sell a new Saab. |
Quote:
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Besides that, the factory should apply a big bright sticker under the hood, stating: "ONLY USE NGK PLUGS". And a writing on the very first pages of the usersmanual as well. |
so this one couldn't be helped either way.
#9
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[...] Here is what I got in response at the same post on SaabCentral: Welcome aboard and let me be the first to throw out a warning that you will no doubt hear 80 times in the course of this thread. Saabs are picky about their plugs! Since The Trionic engine management system was designed around NGK plugs and their particular characteristics, most people opt to stay with them. Most are convinced tiny variations between NGK and different brands of plugs make a big difference to the ECU. I'm not convinced...and that's why everybody loves me. You are driving a turbocharged car now...they are in general a tad more hard on spark plugs. Perhaps the reason your plugs seemed okay in your cavalier after 100k miles was because they may have been platinum. Platinum plugs last longer as they have a higher melting point than the nickel ones, but at the expensive of a bit more electrical resistence. The high heat in a turbocharged car will wear plugs faster, so the stock NGK plugs (nickel) go pretty quickly. Many of us here (notably myself) obsess about the plugs (thanks SPATL!) and rotate them out frequently. I bet I haven't had a set of plugs yet I've kept in more than 10,000 miles. Additionally, the gap on these plugs erodes relatively quickly. Pull those plugs out and make sure they were gapped correctly to begin with. Go with something between .035 and .040 inches for the gap. Anything more and you'll get a bit of a high boost misfire. You'll find Saab-friendly spark plugs are hard to find because of the fact that Saabs require resistor core spark plugs. Since Saab uses a direct ignition system utilizing a coil over plug system integrated into a cassette, there are no plug wires to suppress radio/electrical interference. Therefore, the the plugs themself use a resitor core to suppress spark energy and prevent it from bleeding back up toward the ECU. You MUST use these resistor plugs or ECU go BOOM BOOM. FYI, if you HAVE to use Bosch, Bosch makes the Super plug with a resistor core. Just check out the side of the box to make sure it says resistor core. bkrell |
It is not worth while experimenting with other plugs since the DI system is
designed around the NGK plugs. The NGK plugs are normally changed at 24k miles
interval. They last well because of the automatic cleaning system.
Reply to the thread:
Another important issue is the torque required for the spark plugs. Naturally,
the plugs should sit air tight in their holes, but some care should be
exercised because of the aluminum head and the small diameter holes. It is
easy to overdo it and damage the threads.
#10
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 01:20:33 GMT, gogoasa <someone (AT) microsoft (DOT) com> wrote: Hi, This is my first post: Let's see how you do, "someone", with your first post. I did not know that Saab has so crappie spark plugs. Strike one - opening with an overgeneralization based on limited facts. My previous car was a Chevy Cavalier 96 from 0 miles now has a 100K. When I changed the first set of spark plugs at 60K, even though the manual said every 100K, on the Chevy they were like new. OK, and? When I got my Saab 9-3 '99 with 36K mile I thought it has the same king of plugs, without consulting the manual (who reads the manual anyway). Strike 2. Not reading, and then badmouthing, the information you yourself ignored. Not looking good, "someone". So with that in mind, day before yesterday my Saab started to cough in the lower rpm, with every shift. I said myself: maybe is the muffler that I replaced last week, maybe not. What kind of muffler did you put on it? This could be significant if you're actually, you know, looking for a solution, rather than just here to make noise. I checked the spark plugs and I could not believe: they were toasted, the hook that comes around was almost gone completely on all four. So, because I could not find Bosh I went with the original NKG crap.... See, here is where there are two lights getting brighter, not sure which is the case. Could be "troll", could be "clueless". Let's read on and see if we can determine, shall we? Needless to say the Check Engine light came ON, so I had to disconnect the battery for 15 minutes to reset it. Anyway getting to the point: now, after changing the spark plugs everything seems to be OK, but my gas mileage went from a 25.5 mpg (at least) to a 24 mpg (at most).....!?!!??? I'm going with "troll pretending to be clueless" on this one. No subtlety. What can it be wrong??? IF you actually have a Saab and have done all this, and have the attitude that it's Saab's crappy fault and NGK crappy this and whatever else, it's clear that you're...let's put this gently...not Saab's target market, and would be happier elsewhere. However, seems to me you're just gathering the topics most likely to elecit heated discussion in this group, all in one message, which smells pretty troll-ish to me. If you're actually serious and can't imagine why I'm giving you a hard time, think about your communication approach. "Hi, I've got a (year/model) Saab, my plugs wore out at x,000 miles and with the new ones my milage has gone down by an insignificant, meaningless amount. Am I doing anything wrong here"? |
I was actually trying to introduce my problem better. I think there were
tons of posts about "bad gas milleadge".
So, yeah I expected to find somebody that will say: o, dud, it happened the
same to me last year and this is what I did, or this is what is still
doing....
Generic CENTER muffler, this is sometime called SILENCER. I bought it from
the internet, Starla for 87$
The normal muffler is still the original. Also the exhaust smells horibbly..
I did actually hate it my SAAB before... When I went 1.5 years ago to the
action to get my new car, I was looking for Nissan, Honda, or Passat. (only
V6). But the price, and the fact that is a manual and has some 185bhp,
convinced me to give it a try. Yeah I got my 1999 9-3 for 11K with 36K
miles. The whole last year I wasn't happy with my decision, I try to make my
wife take it, so I can get a different car, but abaut 4-5 months ago I
discovered SaabCentral and this. Also I have donne some work at my wife
Toyota abd then at my Saab. Needless to say the Saab qualyty and design
build for the customer is evident. So I started to love it....
Ohhh, by the way: I drove every car outhere...
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