Dave Hinz wrote:
I would hardly call driving down the road, minding my own business as
being "in the way".

Look, I already said that maybe I should've clarified what kind of
situations I've been subjected to while driving. The light-flashing is
bad enough, but I've yet to experience someone simply flashing their
lights from a safe distance. It's always accompanied by tailgating and
just generally aggressive driving. I simply will not condone that type
of behavior, and whoever decides to act like that behind me can expect
some level of retaliation. Besides, what if I'm passing a bunch of
cars in the right lane?? If I can't get over, I'm not going to speed
up to 90mph, just so I can accommodate somebody behind me. I usually
stay in the right lane anyway, so I'm bound to get back over as soon as
I can. If someone is so impatient that they feel the need to harass me
into "getting out of the way" then they can just wait. Not my
problem...

I take it you're the type to get up on someone's rear bumper and lay on
the high-beams when their speed is inconvenient to you...

Just because I can see someone coming up behind me at what I consider
an unsafe speed doesn't mean I necessarily have the time or ability to
react. See above about the right-hand lane being blocked by other
motorists. Sometimes you just can't get over, and if I'm already
speeding to get past those motorists, I'm not going to speed up even
more to please the dickhead behind me flashing his lights and riding my
ass like a maniac.

Like I said, I'm guilty of occasionally speeding as much as anyone. I
usually go a little faster than the posted limit on back roads, and I
try to stay with traffic on the interstates, even when everyone else is
doing 10mph over the speed limit. I consider that to be safer than
being the one lone driver *actually* doing 55mph when everyone else is
doing 65-70mph.

Hey...I have to put up with insane traffic jams everyday on the way in
and back out of work. Those traffic jams exist before I get there in
the morning, (I didn't "start" them) and they're always caused by some
jackass who did something stupid and screwed it up for everyone else.

Someone has to fight these assholes...if they get behind me and start
their shit, I will do whatever I can to make their life more difficult
than it needs to be.

~jp

Jon R. Pickens wrote:

But see, that was my whole point to begin with. While the other actions
you mention *are* aggressive (and could be seen as ass-holish) the act
of flashing the lights is NOT.


In your reported experience. My experience is otherwise.

Here's a little logic problem for you:
Most tailgaters flash their headlights, therefore all light flashers are
tailgaters. True or false?

Who said it was up to you to condone anything? And what about the
innocent third parties that are driving on the same road that you and
the maniac start to play your silly road games on?

"Just wait"ing is a lot different than slamming on your truck's brakes
or even flashing the brake lights, both of which endanger the purp. and
everone else on that roadway.


Right so you have two sane choices. Either continue at your present
speed and then move to the right after completing your pass, or else
slow down slowly if you feel the oncoming maniac is tailgating too closely.


Actually, you don't "have to". It is a choice that you made/make to
pursue the employment that you are engaged in. You could always change
that.

No, actually, nobody "has to fight these assholes".
"Fighting these assholes" is only a (slightly) different flavor of
asshole-dom.

I have a little secret for you. The assholes will always win in a
confrontation in the end. If you let them get to you, and they don't
kill you first, you will become one.


--
-Fred W

Fred W wrote:
Good discussion. I tend to be laid back and not interfere or engage when
provoked by maniac drivers. Yes, it takes some getting used to resisting
your natural instinct, but you never know if the situation will escalate
into real road rage and perhaps (in the US) someone pulling a gun at you.
I'd rather get to my destination in a slower, but undamaged state of man
and vehicle...

Johannes wrote:

Ah, finally the voice of reason!! These are my thoughts exactly.

--
-Fred W

Fred W <Malt_Hound@*spam-me-not*yahoo.com> writes:
Even trying to be reasonable and accommodating won't keep you
from incurring the wrath of some a**hole drivers.

Back in the '70's I read something from an insurance company that
indicated daytime accidents were significantly reduced by using the
headlights in the day to be seen better. I was driving a Saab 99 LE at the
time, and I noticed the headlight switch was connected to the keyswitch -
I put 2 and 2 together and realized the intent on Sab's behalf. I started
driving this way, and every day dozens of cars would flash their lights at
me, thinking I had "forgotten" my headlights, and that they were saving me
from a dead battery situation!

Years later, driving in Sweden and Denmark, this made much more sense, as
the sort of semi-dusk that prevails there through half the year easily
explains why all cars there are wired this way, and everyone drives with
lights on all the time.

I believe this use is much more pertinent in places like this than say
southern California, where it's blazing sun every day - people will
hardly see your lights - nevertheless it is a good practice to bear in
mind. In fact, it is now the law in Italy, and will soon be in France as
well.

The reason the DRL position doesn't allow the high beams is that you may
not be aware you have them on (you cannot se the effect of course, and the
little light on the panel may not jump out at you in daylight conditions
eitjher) but it could still be aggressive to others, particularly as dusk
approaches. The "flash" function remains available as this is how
Europeans get others' attention - not only to pass them, but for any
reason. Sometimes it's used to say "I see you, and I'm letting you go
ahead of me". Other times it means 'Look out, I'm not stopping". You have
to understand which is meant!!

Now I notice in New England, where everyone used to flash at me for
driving with my lights on 30 years ago, many many cars are driving this
way, and no one sees it as odd any more. At present, I always drive this
way, unles it is a very bright sunny day, in which case I turn them off
and probably save a few drops of precious fuel.

GF

Everett M. Greene wrote:
Quite true, but it certainly improves your odds dramatically.

--
-Fred W

Fred W wrote:
It's a bit like sitting on a train and some wild or drunk passenger tries
to get himself noticed. You probably best look the other way and avoid eye
contact at all cost.

Gary Fritz <fritzxxx (AT) xxxfrii (DOT) com> writes:

I think a lot of this has to do with the stupidity of 'reverse logic' in
lighting design which sees modern car front lights have everything
integrated into one unit, and the headlights are often two seperate lamps
which means not only is there more to fail, but when something fails you
often have to replace the entire cluster and they're very expensive. Then
again I'm sure that when new, classic 900 headlights (since they are unique
and not used on any other make/model of car) priced out at a bit dollar
figure. Especially the H4 e-code lights which were used all through Europe
and here in Oz, but not in the US/Canada until the 'facelist' 900's
appeared.

Craig.
--
Craig's Saab C900 Page at | Craig's Classic Saab Workshop - Sydney .au
http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 | http://www.classicsaab.net and other URL's
Email: c900 (AT) lios (DOT) apana.org.au | For Saab 99/C900/9000 Enthusiasts World-Wide!
Alternate: saabonaut (AT) gmail (DOT) com | Web-forums, galleries, library, links, etc.

- Bob - <uctraing (AT) ultranet (DOT) com> writes:

I did the same with my '97 900. In addition to the other issues noted
about having the headlights on whenever the ignition is on, there are
two situations I frequently encounter when having headlights on at
night is considered extremely poor judgement:

* when driving near a group of amateur astronomers at a star party
* when approaching the guard station for a military facility

Astronomers don't like it because it takes only an instant for the
human eye to lose its dark adaptation (for examples, watch any
decent war movie scene on the bridge of a navy ship at night; that's
why red lamps are used). Recovering dark adaptation takes far, far
longer.

And military guards -- especially these days -- tend to get a bit
testy if a car approaches them at night with bright lights that make
it impossible to see what's going on in side the car. I was reminded
of this because shortly after I bought the car I had to drive onto
the grounds of the Naval Observatory -- where the Vice-President's
residence is located. Double whammy...and a prompt trip to the dealer.

Joe Morris