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Might buy a Saab - advice?
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Might buy a Saab - advice? -
06-30-2003
, 09:10 AM
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I'm looking for a car in the $9-10k range. I've found several Saabs that look interesting, but I've never owned a Saab before and don't know much about them. I have not gone to see any of them yet, but I'd like to get a general idea of what I'd be getting into if I bought one. I'm selling a classic showpiece Mercedes Benz and my wife is hoping I won't buy another money pit! After a short time on the 'net, here is a list of the Saabs I have found that look intriguing to me: '96 900S turbo convertible w/ 53k miles '97 900 SE Turbo w/ 31k '99 9-3 SE w 29k These cars are all within about $1,000 of each other. I would think that the convertible would be the nicest (most comfort and safety features, etc.), but would I be better off with a younger car with lower miles? What is the life expectancy of these cars? Do the turbochargers commonly fail? Are parts expensive? Are dealers only interested in helping late-model customers (MB experience talking here)? How easy/difficult are they to work on? Also, if I buy the convertible, can I expect good insulation from the winter weather? I'm in the Chicago area, so it gets cold here. I would hope that Saab convertibles would be designed for the cold, considering their country of origin, but I don't want to make assumptions that I regret. Any other advice on these models, Saabs in general, what to look for, possible problem areas, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Bill Balmer |
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On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:10:50 GMT, "William Balmer" billbalmer (AT) worldnet (DOT) att.net> wrote: I'm selling a classic showpiece Mercedes Benz and my wife is hoping I won't buy another money pit! Downside - Saab is another European car; in the USA, parts and labor cost a little more. Maintenance is a little more regular than Japanese cars, less than American. Plan to occasionally spend a few bucks on maintenance... most jobs are DIY if you are capable. After a short time on the 'net, here is a list of the Saabs I have found that look intriguing to me: First, you need to go drive a turbo Saab to appreciate it. Like Billy Joel said "there's a new band in town, but you can't get the sound from the story in a magazine". Drive one to be consumed. '96 900S turbo convertible w/ 53k miles '97 900 SE Turbo w/ 31k '99 9-3 SE w 29k These cars are all within about $1,000 of each other. I would think that the convertible would be the nicest (most comfort and safety features, Since I have a convertible, I'm a little biased. A drive with the top down on a 85 degree night, listening to the turbo wind up... you just can't beat it. I put the top down whenever I can, even it requires the heater on full and a light jacket on cooler days :-) BTW - I think it would be unusual to find a *turbo* 1996 900 *S* in the USA. Either it's a Canadian car, or it's an SE, AFAIK. Most convertibles are SE's. Also, I'm guessing that the '99 is a turbo too, check. but would I be better off with a younger car with lower miles? Yes, sigh, probably... but 53K is not all that much. However, the '99 would be nice as they worked out all the little issues with the New Generation 900 (NG900) by early 1998, then renamed it the 9~3 in late 1998. ALso, the pre '98 cars had a cable (manual) clutch, the later cars had a hydraulic. The cable needs replacement (of the $35 cable) every 50K miles. Cheap enough. The cable clutch has no hydraulic assistance, some smaller women find it too stiff. (If you test a car and it's _real_ stiff, that car needs a cable or a clutch job). |
Pre-96 Saabs did not use cable clutch. The earlier(93 and older) Saabs
the clutch and brake shared the same hydraulic fluid tank. The theory
was if you had a leak and had no brake fluid(no stopping), you could not
disengage to clutch to start the car(no go) - a safety feature.
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There were a couple of (TSB issued) problems with the 96, they probably apply to the '97 too. Most listed below. Some folks run into all of them, some folks have none of them. There's a specific tonneau motor issue with all 94 to 97 convertibles, it's a cheap ($10 parts) but 2-4 hours of labor job. Another good DIY if you're inclined. What is the life expectancy of these cars? |
Make sure you get "life expectancies" of the '96 and newer models. The
engines in the '80s models would last 300K miles or more with out major
work - often the car would be retired for rust or accidents first. The
engines in the '96 and newer are not the same, one could hope they
actually are improved, but only time will tell. The engines which have a
proven record of lasting 300K miles had only 125 to 140 hp. The engines
in the newer models can have over 200 hp out of about the same
displacement and # of cylinders. More power is more fun, but will it
last as long? Anyone out there with over 300K miles on a NG turbo?
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Engines run 300K or more without major work. Clutch is probably good for 100K or more. Trannys seem fine. There are some electronics issues; the DI Cassette dies at 65-99K for $250 and 10 minutes of work, or $400 plus labor at the dealer. The alternators occasionally go in the pre '98 cars and there's a valve in the A/C compressor that sometimes goes. Some folks run into a headgasket problem in their pre '98 cars (later specs fixed that issue). I've seen some reports of A/C cores failing and costing $1k in repairs. The cable that the rear seat release uses stretches and needs replacement in one or both seats of the two doors. Keep in mind that *all* cars seem to have issues with one or more components these days - and I include my Japanese cars in that. Very few run forever with no component failures. Do the turbochargers commonly fail? No. Not an issue. Are parts expensive? Many are dealer items, but eeuroparts.com (note the double "e") will sell them to you for 2/3 of the dealer price if you like to DIY. Are dealers only interested in helping late-model customers (MB experience talking here)? Actually, Saab dealers seem to appreciate older cars. They almost enjoy them. It's sort of a cult thing :-) How easy/difficult are they to work on? Very. Oil filter couldn't be easier, the spark plugs can be changed in 10 minutes, air filter is well positioned. Even things like strut replacement are easy. The only bad design (repair wise) is the clutch. You have to release the engine and lower it a little to get the transmission out. A full clutch job (plate, pressure, bearing, etc typically costs $1-1.3K at a dealer. |
Another reason to keep a Classic 900 :-) $1,000 to $1,300 for NG clutch job?
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Also, if I buy the convertible, can I expect good insulation from the winter weather? I'm in the Chicago area, so it gets cold here. I would hope that Saab convertibles would be designed for the cold, considering their country of origin, but I don't want to make assumptions that I regret. Well insulated. One of the nicest convertible tops I've seen. I drive mine in the NorthEastern US year round. No complaints, even in 0 degree weather. Any other advice on these models, Saabs in general, what to look for, possible problem areas, etc. would be greatly appreciated. See above. I'd go for the lower miles, but convertible is really, really nice anytime the temps are over 70 degrees (80 degrees for the wife and kids). From a maintenance and cost standpoint, I'd go with the 99 SE. But, from a "fun to drive", I'd pick the convertible. |
Any thoughts on the '91 Convertible model? I know of one for sale and
the price is definitely right. I never owned a convertible, but it is
tempting. . . .
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Bob |
#4
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Pre-96 Saabs did not use cable clutch. The earlier(93 and older) Saabs the clutch and brake shared the same hydraulic fluid tank. The theory was if you had a leak and had no brake fluid(no stopping), you could not disengage to clutch to start the car(no go) - a safety feature. |
The Saab 92, 93, 94 (of which there were 5 or 6), 95, and 96 used
a cable clutch up until 1964, going to hydraulic in 1965.
Dave Hinz
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On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:14:55 -0400, ma_twain <ma_twain (AT) yahoo (DOT) com wrote: Pre-96 Saabs did not use cable clutch. The earlier(93 and older) Saabs the clutch and brake shared the same hydraulic fluid tank. The theory was if you had a leak and had no brake fluid(no stopping), you could not disengage to clutch to start the car(no go) - a safety feature. I was speaking of years, not models. |
to be complete for the sake of historical accuracy.
#6
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On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:14:55 -0400, ma_twain <ma_twain (AT) yahoo (DOT) com wrote: Pre-96 Saabs did not use cable clutch. The earlier(93 and older) Saabs the clutch and brake shared the same hydraulic fluid tank. The theory was if you had a leak and had no brake fluid(no stopping), you could not disengage to clutch to start the car(no go) - a safety feature. I was speaking of years, not models. To restate vis-a-vis this poster: The "new generation" 900 used a cable clutch from 1994 to 1998, when they changed back to a hydraulic clutch. Note that the convertible did not become an NG900 until 1995. snip A full clutch job (plate, pressure, bearing, etc typically costs $1-1.3K at a dealer. Another reason to keep a Classic 900 :-) $1,000 to $1,300 for NG clutch job? Absolutely the worst design in the car. When they twisted the engine sideways, they apparently had an issue with the tranny placement. The only way to do the clutch is to put the engine brace across the top of the engine, remove the substructure and let the engine drop a few inches, then remove the tranny. Price wise, everyone I know who's had it done at a dealer has paid over $1k for a full job with a clutch disc, pressure plate, bearing, etc. Keep in mind that a dealer would probably charge $800 for a "conventional" clutch, so it looks like a 30% increase for an NG900. |
Anyone know what a dealer would charge for Classic 900 clutch? I don't
know because I had over 200K miles on my first Classic when I sold it-
with the original clutch in good condition. I would think it would be
less than a conventional clutch because it is so easy to replace, thus
requiring less time and hence less money. I would suspect many people
changed the clutch themselves in the Classic.
The last time I had a clutch replaced was on a rear wheel drive car and
it was under $300 - but it was also maybe 10 years ago . . .
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