Question for BlaBla

#1

Ok, call me a traitor...;-)

I recently passed up on a chance to buy a 2003 350Z Base model, with all the
Touring model options, Slip, ABS etc..w/51K miles on it in good shape for
$16K. Looking at the cost of ownership and especially insurance didn't make
economical sense to me, not when I have a near mint cond. '02 SC2 w/ similar
mileage almost paid for.

Googling revealed that the '03 Z was a tire eater (was a recall on FE
chassis alignmenets which seems was a regulary scheduled Nissan only
maintenence visit every tire rotation) and a very rough ride.
Then there was premium gas, 18-23 mpg (actual mpg I observed) and my
insurance would have doubled.

Did I pass on a good car or was I smart in your opinion to keep my mint
condition SC2? I know you know cars well. TIA.

--
marx404

#2

In article <coqdncse-qdyVaTbnZ2dnUVZ_uejnZ2d (AT) adelphia (DOT) com>, 404 (AT) 404 (DOT) com
says...

Quote:

Ok, call me a traitor...;-)

Ok call me biased.

Quote:

I recently passed up on a chance to buy a 2003 350Z Base model, with all the
Touring model options, Slip, ABS etc..w/51K miles on it in good shape for
$16K. Looking at the cost of ownership and especially insurance didn't make
economical sense to me, not when I have a near mint cond. '02 SC2 w/ similar
mileage almost paid for.

Undeniably it is a far cry from economical. For its weight, size (2
seats), octane requirment, and power output it gets terrible gas
mileage. If one really really wanted a modern day 2 seater I would
suggest holding out for a deal on a used Sky Redline or Solstice GXP.
And thats only if you can afford to keep a 4+ passenger daily driver.
Then one can just insure the sports car during the warmist 6 months.

Quote:

Googling revealed that the '03 Z was a tire eater (was a recall on FE
chassis alignmenets which seems was a regulary scheduled Nissan only
maintenence visit every tire rotation) and a very rough ride.
Then there was premium gas, 18-23 mpg (actual mpg I observed) and my
insurance would have doubled.

And wasn't it Nissan that was once caught overrating the HP of their
engines? I have no love for Nissan... Honestly the only asian powered
vehicle I wouldn't mind owning is the Pontiac Vibe GT. Thats a good
looking, decent, and practical little vehicle. (with timing chain even!)

Quote:

Did I pass on a good car or was I smart in your opinion to keep my mint
condition SC2? I know you know cars well. TIA.

The 350z is no screaming deal, keep the Saturn obvously.

#3

Thanks, I feel better about passing it up then. I assume that if you like
the Vibe (Matrix) that the Astra might be interesting also?

--
marx404

#4

In article <XqKdnc8sb_Rq4qfbnZ2dnUVZ_vmqnZ2d (AT) adelphia (DOT) com>, 404 (AT) 404 (DOT) com
says...

Quote:

Thanks, I feel better about passing it up then. I assume that if you like
the Vibe (Matrix) that the Astra might be interesting also?

The Matrix looks fugly... Pontiac done a superior design job IMO.

Opel's Astra has a very good looking hatchback that can compete with
the Matrix/Vibe and a number of other vehicles but if Saturns version of
the Astra uses the imported "family 1" Ecotec then that means it will
likely keep a timing "belt". If that is the case then I couldn't endorse
it.

(I juz dun trust dem belts.)

See 4 versions of the Opel Astra here
http://thehollywoodextra.blogspot.com/2006/05/saturn-astra-in-us.html
(The retractable hardtop looks awful complex and may develope issues.)

If or when they come with timing chains I may have something to replace
my Bonnie with in the future.

#5

Ya, isn't that Vince Burlapp purty? <chuckle>
My GM sources claim that neither the new VUE nor the Astra will have timing
belts, all will chains, but of course that is pre-production. No plans for
the twin-hardtop yet though. Again, pre-production rumors are that GM may
close some operation in Antwerp, Belgium (where the Astra is built) and
relocate to GM Opel & Daewoo plants in other worldwide regions in the future
to cut costs. Yo Qiero Saturn.

--
marx404

#6

"marx404" <404 (AT) 404 (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Ya, isn't that Vince Burlapp purty? <chuckle
My GM sources claim that neither the new VUE nor the Astra will have
timing
belts, all will chains, but of course that is pre-production. No plans
for
the twin-hardtop yet though. Again, pre-production rumors are that GM may
close some operation in Antwerp, Belgium (where the Astra is built) and
relocate to GM Opel & Daewoo plants in other worldwide regions in the
future
to cut costs. Yo Qiero Saturn.

--
marx404

I'm almost fed up. Why do they even both using belts anymore? They break,
wear out, etc. Timing chains seem to be as good as the engineering (usually
better than the engine itself - but I wont go there. They last as long as
the engine doesn't overheat and is fed oil.) The chain is obviously far
superior even in used cars as mine still apparently has a good chain after
god knows how many miles and I purchased the car used, and abused. I was
looking at KIA's as their prices are anything but unattractive - though
they've got the timing belt. Sorry.
This is another reason also why I wont touch a Chrysler. (I've got many.)

The cold facts are I put on up to and over 50k miles a year, and this isn't
business related. Though I plan to make it, through photography and a few
other things I"me perusing - this could increase. Most timing belts are
rated at 60k miles - 140k miles. This would put my average cost to replace
this over a car payment extra a year. No dice. That aint' reliable.

#7

In article <34SdnQIE94PtiKbbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d (AT) adelphia (DOT) com>, 404 (AT) 404 (DOT) com
says...

Quote:

Ya, isn't that Vince Burlapp purty? <chuckle
My GM sources claim that neither the new VUE nor the Astra will have timing
belts, all will chains, but of course that is pre-production. No plans for

Well the Vue will have the 2.4 so there is no reason for a change but
the 1.8 is a smaller Ecotec used in Europe. If it is the ecotec they
will be using...
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3561/18ecotecoh4.jpg

Quote:

the twin-hardtop yet though. Again, pre-production rumors are that GM may
close some operation in Antwerp, Belgium (where the Astra is built) and
relocate to GM Opel & Daewoo plants in other worldwide regions in the future
to cut costs. Yo Qiero Saturn.

I thought the entire concept of Saturn was to be "just like imports but
NOT imported". Now its "just like imports cuz THEY ARE IMPORTS!" Before
long I won't be interested in buying anything by anyone.

#8

I hope it isn't THAT ecotec engine! Saturn says it is a "new" engine for
them, could they mean this 1.8 or a new chain driven one?

To answer Hypercube's question, put simply: Most engines yrs ago were belt
driven. Saturn's claim to fame was polymer panels and chains. Belts do have
their benefits though they must be changed at 50K intervals. Belt driven
engines tend to run quieter than most chain driven engines. That's what I
got from Googling and found many engines use belts, even Lexus for quiet
operation and of course manufacturing cost. The only failure I know of with
chains are oil lubrication issues.

Hmm, maybe I'll give another thought into a remaining '07 ION.

--
marx404

#9

Comment on timing chains in Chrysler engines below.

"HyperCube33 (Life2Death)" <hypercube[11x3]@hotmail.com> wrote

Quote:

I'm almost fed up. Why do they even both using belts anymore? They break,
wear out, etc. Timing chains seem to be as good as the engineering
(usually better than the engine itself - but I wont go there. They last as
long as the engine doesn't overheat and is fed oil.) The chain is
obviously far superior even in used cars as mine still apparently has a
good chain after god knows how many miles and I purchased the car used,
and abused. I was looking at KIA's as their prices are anything but
unattractive - though they've got the timing belt. Sorry.
This is another reason also why I wont touch a Chrysler. (I've got many.)

Chrysler has several engines that use timing chains (versus rubber timing
belts). The 2.7L, 3.3L, and 3.8L are all excellent examples of highly
reliable engines that come to mind. (The 2.7L pre-2001 was known to sludge
so required frequent oil changes, but that issue seems to have been resolved
through improved design. The 3.3L engine has been used since 1990 and has
an excellent track record. The slightly larger, but otherwise nearly
identical 3.8L uses the same engine block and timing mechanism.

Bob

#10

You got me curious, after looking around and a bit of much reading I don't
believe that Saturn will us the older Ecotec belt driven engine, belts are
still used in D-Tec though. Heres more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Family_II_engine

--
marx404