Hello All,
The car is a 92 Legacy L with 101K miles and it is located in Florida.
I am told that I need to either recharge the AC system with R12 or
convert the system to use R134. I would like to convert the system to
R134, but I am not too sure of the end result.

Has anybody converted a Legacy to R134? Is the AC system effective
afterwards? Any special problems? I would greatly appreciate any
replies ... Thanks!

-- K

<KavanX (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

the same compressor, coils can be used.The system must be completely flushed
as the oild used with R-12 is not compatible with R-134.
R-134 sure is a lot cheaper to deal with, R-12 is impossible to get in a lot
of states.

Where in FL are you? I am in broward county and I can help you if you
are close.

The following is from a recent previous thread.

If you have an A/C technician certified to buy the R-12, you can get
the refrigerant from legal sources on ebay.com, you will need the epa
certification id. The cost for one 12oz can of R-12 ranges from $17 to $22

To find a leak you can look for the oil traces left by the leak.

The reasons to use R-12:
- Cools better
- Conversions have many problems due to incompatibility of the oil in
the system with the r-134. Replacing the compressor oil will not work
too well because the oil is in the whole system. You would need to
flush the system with nitrogen, thus improving your chances but not
guaranteeing much. I remember reading, while studying for the EPA
certification, that R-12 substitute refrigerants are not the solution
either. The conversion will work but is not the right thing to do.

Reasons to use r-134:
- Easily available for now.
- Cost

If you are into stuyding a lil, you can get certified online, an open
book examination for $19.95, http://www.epatest.com/e_609cert.html.

There are two certifications:
- 609 for automotive "Section 609 Certification allows the purchase of
any refrigerant in any size container from an auto supply house for use
in cooling the passenger compartment of vehicles!"
- 608 "With 608 certification, you can purchase ANY refrigerant in
containers greater that 20 pounds."

Please note that 609 is only for refrigerants used in cars.
and that 608 is for any refrigerants in containers larger than 20 lbs.

I hope this information helps.

KavanX (AT) gmail (DOT) com wrote:

Thanks a lot for the info. Unfortunately, I am in Tampa.

This is great. I think I will either try to find a mechanic with the
EPA certification or get the cert myself - it doesn't look tough. From
your reply and others it looks like converting to R134 does not work
well, so I will stick to recharging with R12. Is it normal for a AC
system to lose coolant over the years, or must there be a leak in the
system?

Thanks!

-- K

On May 14, 7:24 pm, AS <d... (AT) spame (DOT) com> wrote:

It is normal for systems to lose their charge over the years, but there
could also be a leak in the system. Before you put the refrigerant in,
have it pumped to a vacuum (unless you can pressurize it with Nitrogen).
The system should keep the vacuum or the pressure for at least 20
minutes or so.

Remember the exam is an open book exam and you will find sample
questions in the reading material

About R12 prices:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-can...30584014QQrdZ1
http://www.refrigerantsales.com/

KavanX (AT) gmail (DOT) com wrote:

Thanks for good info on the certification process.

First, got a 1992 "anything"?, then the AC system
is going to leak a little. That's life. So, what
should you do about it? Well, I wouldn't spend a
lot of money on the system if you can keep it working
with minimal investment.

However, info on R12 to R134a was not so good, IMO.

Everyone is right, BUT, R12 to R134a conversions work just fine.
The rhetoric about R12 being more effective than R134a is
true, it's just that the difference is so small that you
really can't tell the difference unless you are testing
in a fully instrumented test lab. Want it cooler? Turn up
the AC!

The oils are not compatible, that's true. However, know
what difference it makes and what kind of catastrophy will
occur if you just charge it with R134a? Nothing will change
that you will be able to detect as a driver. Yeah, not
compatible, but it works just fine. I have done many
conversions but I no longer do this for profit, so I am
not bound by the "How much money can I make on this guy's
car" mentality.

Converting to 134a will seem just as cold to you as if
you found some R12 to use.

I have R12 sitting in my garage. I kept it because of
all of the original information, which the auto industry
is all too glad to promote, that the conversion requires
draining the R12 oil, flushing it out, etc., etc.

Now we know that it was not true. I converted my cars
to cheap 134a for a couple of reasons, price and the
environment. R12 is much less Earth friendly than R134a.
So let's stop using R12!!

All you need to do about the old R12 is vacuum it out.

Also, what about the next time you need freon, in a year
or two (figuring a 1992 car). You've polluted the air with
R12 and now you are ready to do it again. Good reason to
change to 134a.

Do you really want to pay ridiculous prices for R12 for the
life of your car? Just switch it over now and be done with
it.

I agree that normal leak testing should be done with any
freon recharge. Also, you could have a worn out compressor,
saturated dessicant, bad expansion valve, bad accumulator,
etc/ etc. But if it doesn't work, it will not be because
you used 134a.

Don't bother flaming, I am a retired factory technical rep
for a top world auto manufacturer and I have heard all the
"old mechanic" tales too many times.

I have no pride to maintain, no bones to pick. I just tell
the truth from the engineers who know the real facts and
let the chips lay where they fall.

Change over to 134a if you want to save trouble and money
and the environment.

The 'Ole Factory rep

I agree.
I had a 91 Ford Exploder converted to R134a when I had an R12 leak. I went
to a reputable AC shop and they replaced the leaking hose, flushed the
system to clear the oil, added a new condensor (if I remember correctly) and
filled with R134a for about $400. Worked great after the change and 5 years
later still works great.
Just my humble opinion of course...
Brian

<The 'Ole Factory rep (AT) nowhere (DOT) invalid> wrote

Thank you for expressing your opinion, and no, I am not interested in
starting a flame war :-) I do not want to cause an undue environmental
impact, which is why I continue to maintain and drive this 1992
Legacy.

I think the first thing I am going to do is figure out whether there
is a leak in the system. The AC still blows cold, though weakly, and I
haven't had any any problems during the past Florida summers.
Thanks!

-- K

On May 16, 3:03 am, <The 'Ole Factory r... (AT) nowhere (DOT) invalid> wrote: