Oil in a 150K Outback

I have a 1996 Outback with 150,000 miles. What kind of oil should I be putting
in it? I live in NY and average 80 miles a day. Thanks.

RAJP53 wrote:

I have a 1996 Outback with 150,000 miles. What kind of oil should I be putting

Hi,

If the engine has little appreciable oil consumption, and oil pressure
is sufficient (does the car have a pressure gauge?) I'd stick with
whatever the book recommends. If you don't have the book, go to
www.subaru.com for recommendations. I'd go for something at the heavier
end of the spectrum for summer use.

OTOH, if your car shows some of its miles, you might want to go a little
heavier than what the book calls for. I've had good luck with Chevron
Delo 400 15W-40 in mine. It actually holds oil pressure in SoCal (100+
deg F) summer weather than some of the 20W-50s that I've used in the
past--we don't really have "winter" where I am, so I'm concerned with
hot performance much more than cold. Don't know if the Chevron's
available on the East Coast. If not, Mobil has Delvac and Shell has
Rotella in the same weight. All of these 15W-40s were originally
designed for diesel use, but have gasoline ratings, too. For the
naysayers who will warn against using these oils in a gasoline engine
(there are some), I'll only say my engine's got 336k miles and is doing
just fine.

You're gonna get as many opinions on which oil (brand, weight, type) to
use as you receive answers, so you've gotta experiment a little to see
what works best for you.

Good luck,

Rick

The only thing I could add to Rick's post is, if your car is burning a
little oil and you find yourself topping off the oil regularly DO NOT be
tempted to think "Well, I've been putting oil in more often so I can go
longer between oil changes". In an engine with worn piston rings (and
other componenets) you get increased 'blow-by'. One thing this causes is
gasoline fumes from the compression stroke getting into the oil reducing
it's effective viscosity. Keep up the maintainence schedule to get the
contaminated oil out.

Carl
1 Lucky Texan



Rick Courtright wrote:

RAJP53 wrote:

I have a 1996 Outback with 150,000 miles. What kind of oil should I be putting


Hi,

If the engine has little appreciable oil consumption, and oil pressure
is sufficient (does the car have a pressure gauge?) I'd stick with
whatever the book recommends. If you don't have the book, go to
www.subaru.com for recommendations. I'd go for something at the heavier
end of the spectrum for summer use.

OTOH, if your car shows some of its miles, you might want to go a little
heavier than what the book calls for. I've had good luck with Chevron
Delo 400 15W-40 in mine. It actually holds oil pressure in SoCal (100+
deg F) summer weather than some of the 20W-50s that I've used in the
past--we don't really have "winter" where I am, so I'm concerned with
hot performance much more than cold. Don't know if the Chevron's
available on the East Coast. If not, Mobil has Delvac and Shell has
Rotella in the same weight. All of these 15W-40s were originally
designed for diesel use, but have gasoline ratings, too. For the
naysayers who will warn against using these oils in a gasoline engine
(there are some), I'll only say my engine's got 336k miles and is doing
just fine.

You're gonna get as many opinions on which oil (brand, weight, type) to
use as you receive answers, so you've gotta experiment a little to see
what works best for you.

Good luck,

Rick

--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

Rick:

I'll only say my engine's got 336k miles
and is doing just fine.

Wow!

Did you use 15w-40 from the beginning?
Any additives in the oil, or perhaps gas?

Your milage is remarkable!

How frequently did you do oil changes?
Any particular oil filter brand? Also, is your
engine the 2.5l or 2.2l, or some other.

I am asking all these questions because I have
a fairly new Impreza 2.2L, barely broken-in, and
was thinking whether I should use synthetic, or
semi-synthetic. The "diesel-type" option sounds
interesting (surely these are excellent quality oils).

I have used mineral Valvoline 10w-30, so far.

s.z.

UserEddie214 wrote:

Wow!

Hi,

Let's see if I can answer all your questions... sorry if it turns into a
ramble!

I bought this car with 209k miles on it. It's a '90 Loyale with a 1.8l,
non-turbo, a 4wd, 5spd wagon. The guy who had it before me was a little
less than religious with some of his maintenance. He drove it on a lot
of dirt roads, and it burned oil at about 1 qt/1200-1400 miles. Since it
doesn't smoke, and passes smog testing ok, I've always assumed this to
be a function of dead valve seals, and maybe valve guide wear cuz of the
gobs of fine dust the car was breathing all the time. PCV system's been
checked, valve replaced at regular intervals and all, so I'm sticking
with the worn seals idea.

I used several brands and types of oil when I first got the car. I've
used Castrol GTX for years, so I started with it, in 10W-30 (book
recommendation.) Oil pressure ran at the bare minimum (according to the
gauge and book figures) and that kinda bothered me. Next I tried 10W-40,
20W-50 in Castrol, and Mobil 1 15W-50 synthetic. Then someone here on
the group, an auto shop instructor, suggested Delo 400. I tried it and
have been using it since, almost 100k miles.

Oil pressure with the Delo 400 is better than other brands except the
Mobil 1, oil consumption has remained pretty predictable at 1 qt/1200
miles regardless of conditions. Even though the "diesel" oils are
supposed to clean somewhat better than gasoline oils, I've added Rislone
about every 10k miles to help quiet the famous valve tapping noises.
About 20k miles ago, I switched over to Marvel Mystery Oil at each oil
change, using Bill Putney's advice. It's done a better job of quieting
the valves, and judging by how quickly the oil turns black since
starting to use it, there's still a lot of crud in the engine that't
being cleaned out.

Oil filters and change intervals: Subies seem to be more particular
about filters than other cars I've owned or serviced. I've had the best
luck with Subie OEM filters, though I use Purolator (they make the Subie
filter) and NAPA Gold as backups if I can't get to the Subie dealer.
Some will advise against using the orange Fram filters: I won't condemn
Fram across the board, since I've used their filters with no problems in
other cars, but will agree they're probably not the best choice for a
Subie. I TRY to adhere to 3,000 mile change intervals, but because of my
driving patterns, a couple of changes may go 4500-5000 miles each year.
I don't worry too much about that, cuz those particular miles are
usually in 5-6 week intervals.

Now a couple of things have changed since my car was built which might
affect your choices. On mine, 5W-30 oil was only recommended in winter,
and there's a warning about not using it for extended high-spd driving.
And somewhere I found a TSB or other letter from SOA that said Subaru
does NOT recommend synthetic oil in my car.

Today, I believe Subaru's basic oil recommendation is a 5W-30, with
10W-30 as an alternative "summer" recommendation. I don't know if they
recommend anything heavier, or what their position on synthetics is
today. Lots of people are using them in newer engines, and most report
pretty good results. While the change intervals outside the US are
increasing, ours here are still pretty much the old 3000 mile standard
for "severe" service, which, when you read the book, consists of driving
the car under the conditions most of us see every day. Some will claim
that's a marketing trick to sell more oil. I won't argue that, but I
also know we don't always get the best oil in the world here in the
States, so the shorter change intervals just seem to be cheap insurance
to me. Regardless of oil choice, you need to adhere to the book change
intervals while you're under warranty, which might make synthetics a
less economically viable choice, depending on your budget and attitudes
toward these things!

So if I were you, I'd probably not put the heavier "diesel" oils in your
car at this time. They won't HURT anything, but you may find fuel
economy actually drops since they're heavier than what a new engine's
designed for, and if you live somewhere that has a REAL winter, you
might experience some starting problems. But for a high mileage engine,
they seem to work well. You could always try one of the "diesel" oils
for one or two change intervals and keep good records to see if there's
any downside in fuel economy, too. If so, go back to lighter oil--if
not, make your choice whichever way you wish.

Sorry to go on and on, but hope this helps! Just remember these are only
one person's experience with one car, so YMMV!

Rick

Rick:

I bought this car with 209k miles on it. It's a '90 Loyale
with a 1.8l, non-turbo, a 4wd, 5spd wagon.

(...)

I used several brands and types of oil when I first got
the car. I've used Castrol GTX for years, so I started
with it, in 10W-30 (book recommendation.) Oil pressure
ran at the bare minimum (according to the gauge and book >figures) and that
kinda bothered me. Next I tried 10W-40,
20W-50 in Castrol, and Mobil 1 15W-50 synthetic. Then >someone here on the
group, an auto shop instructor,
suggested Delo 400. I tried it and have been using it since, >almost 100k
miles.

Thanks for the reply Rick.

I am in Reno, where we have cold winters and probably
15w-40 is not the way to go with a low milage car, but
I have lived in Las Vegas for years and had good results
with 20w-50 Castrol, and Valvoline straight 40- for
summer. This was with a GM 2.8 V6 engine that has
made so far 170k- not bad for a 1989 GM product.

Oil pressure with the Delo 400 is better than other brands >except the Mobil
1, oil consumption has remained pretty >predictable at 1 qt/1200 miles

regardless of conditions.

Even though the "diesel" oils are supposed to clean
somewhat better than gasoline oils, I've added Rislone
about every 10k miles to help quiet the famous valve
tapping noises. About 20k miles ago, I switched over to
Marvel Mystery Oil at each oil change, using Bill Putney's >advice. It's done
a better job of quieting the valves, and
judging by how quickly the oil turns black since
starting to use it, there's still a lot of crud in the engine that't
being cleaned out.

I use MMO occasionally in the gas, usually small amounts.
Helps keep things clean. I believe in two other products: Berrymans B12
Chemtool- this is an excellent and
inexpensive product for cleaning injectors. Walmart
has it for only $2.37 a bottle. It is very strong though,
works great on GM cars, but never tried it on anything
else. I also believe in Restore Engine Restorer, used it
several times and seems to do a good job in restoring/
evening out compression, so the engine runs smoother
and regains some lost power.

Oil filters and change intervals: Subies seem to be more >particular about
filters than other cars I've owned or serviced. >I've had the best luck with

Subie OEM filters, though I use >Purolator (they make the Subie filter) and
NAPA Gold as >backups if I can't get to the Subie dealer. Some will advise

against using the orange Fram filters: I won't condemn
Fram across the board, since I've used their filters with no >problems in
other cars, but will agree they're probably not
the best choice for a Subie. I TRY to adhere to 3,000 mile >change intervals,
but because of my driving patterns, a
couple of changes may go 4500-5000 miles each year.
I don't worry too much about that, cuz those particular
miles are usually in 5-6 week intervals.

Now a couple of things have changed since my car was
built which might affect your choices. On mine, 5W-30
oil was only recommended in winter, and there's a warning >about not using it
for extended high-spd driving.
And somewhere I found a TSB or other letter from SOA that >said Subaru does
NOT recommend synthetic oil in my car.

Today, I believe Subaru's basic oil recommendation is
a 5W-30, with 10W-30 as an alternative "summer" >recommendation. I don't know
if they recommend anything >heavier, or what their position on synthetics is
today.

My 2000 Impreza manual recommends heavier
oils for extreme weather conditions or for towing.

Lots of people are using them in newer engines, and most >report pretty good
results. While the change intervals outside >the US are increasing, ours here

are still pretty much the old >3000 mile standard for "severe" service, which,
when you read >the book, consists of driving the car under the conditions most

of us see every day. Some will claim that's a marketing trick to >sell more
oil. I won't argue that, but I also know we don't >always get the best oil in

the world here in the

States, so the shorter change intervals just seem to be cheap >insurance to
me. Regardless of oil choice, you need to adhere
to the book change intervals while you're under warranty, >which might make
synthetics a less economically viable choice, >depending on your budget and

attitudes toward these things!

So if I were you, I'd probably not put the heavier "diesel"
oils in your car at this time. They won't HURT anything, but >you may find
fuel economy actually drops since they're
heavier than what a new engine's designed for, and if you
live somewhere that has a REAL winter, you might
experience some starting problems. But for a high mileage >engine, they seem
to work well. You could always try one of >the "diesel" oils for one or two

change intervals and keep good >records to see if there's any downside in fuel
economy, too. If >so, go back to lighter oil--if not, make your choice
whichever >way you wish.

Sorry to go on and on, but hope this helps! Just remember
these are only one person's experience with one car, so >YMMV!

Thanks, it is always a good thing to learn what others
are doing, and share some information in the process.
I wish you plenty more miles on your Subie! Don't forget
to report back when you hit the 400k mark.

s.z.

Rick

UserEddie214 wrote:

else. I also believe in Restore Engine Restorer, used it
several times and seems to do a good job in restoring/
evening out compression, so the engine runs smoother
and regains some lost power.

Hi,

I've seen Restore advertised for years, but I think you're the first
person I've found who's actually used it. I read a can at the parts
store once, and it looked like you are supposed to use it with each oil
change.

Is that how you've used it, or did you put it in once, go a few changes,
then use it again? Results in the ads, of course, look pretty
impressive, but it's always good to hear from folks who've got ~real
life~ experience!

Thanks!

Rick

thierry wrote:

You should leave a line between the quote and what you reply.

This thread is of great interest for me... But I've had a real hard time
understanding who answers to what in that post. Thanks!

The solution lies in your knowing how to read the successive posts - no
extra lines are necessary to decipher who said what.

The clues are in the '>' marks. If C is responding to B who responded
to A, then you will see formating like this:

A wrote:
[whatever A wrote]
B wrote:
[whatever B wrote]
[whatever C wrote]

It's generally encouraged for successive posters to delete previous
posts except for what he/she is directly responding to (also optionally
leaving in what may be needed from previous posts for context).

UserEddie did something else very useful - and that is interleaving his
comments with the various comments that he is replying to (again - you
can distinguish his remarks from what he is responding to by the fact
that there are no '>' marks before his lines of comment). That keeps
things in immediate context so you don't have to search around in the
entire previous post to figure out what he is commenting on

Things do get confusing when some people in a given thread top post and
others bottom post - but that's going to happen no matter how much
people complain about top posters. The key to knowing who said what and
in what order will **always** be the '>' marks.

Now that you know the "code", try reading back thru and see if things
make more sense.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Bill Putney, 7/8/03 20:32 :

Now that you know the "code", try reading back thru and see if things
make more sense.

I master the code. Have you read the post yourself? There are ">" digged
right in the paragraph so the color codes get mixed up.

Now I see that this is most probably because of line wraps he was caught
with, so you have to read the whole thing to see what he was answering to.

<Example>

Oil pressure with the Delo 400 is better than other brands >except the Mobil
1, oil consumption has remained pretty >predictable at 1 qt/1200 miles

regardless of conditions.
</Example>

Who answers what here? No one...

The post needed a clean up before sending... And I definitely needed a
coffee break at that time.
Sorry for being so picky. I just had a hard time reading through.
--
Thierry
NOTE: Remove 'NOSPAM' from the reply-to address to contact directly

Rick:

UserEddie214 wrote:

else. I also believe in Restore Engine Restorer,
used it several times and seems to do a good job
in restoring/ evening out compression, so the
engine runs smoother and regains some lost
power.

Hi,

I've seen Restore advertised for years, but I think
you're the first person I've found who's actually
used it. I read a can at the parts store once, and it
looked like you are supposed to use it with each oil
change.

Is that how you've used it, or did you put it in once,
go a few changes, then use it again?

I"ve used it both ways and can say that
there is a definitive cumulative effect.

If you use it consequtively, say several oil
changes in a row, the effect is greater and
lasts longer. By that I mean you can go one
oil change, or perhaps even two, without
the Restorer and still feel a difference.

My experience is with use in an engine that
has relatively good compression, overall, but
runs a bit rough due to uneven compression
among cylinders (one cylinder is particularly
problematic). It uses very little oil without
the Restorer and nearly none with it.

Regards,
s.z.

ps. to the guy that had problems reading my
reply: Sorry, my browser is set rather narrow
and it breaks the quoted text line if too long.
I did leave empty lines before and after replies.

Results in the ads, of course, look pretty impressive,
but it's always good to hear from folks who've got
~real life~ experience!

Thanks!

Rick