On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:05:56 -0600, SkaredShtles
<elan_mbx1 (AT) NOSPAMyahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Thanks. I have driven standard transmissions all my life, have used engine
braking all my life, and have not had clutch problems. I figured that
either the 'clutch damage' statement was wrong, or there was a new
definition of engine braking.

....Ron

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:55:47 -0800, "al gu" <spamm (AT) sympatico (DOT) com> wrote:

As a newly licensed driver in '52, I taught myself that trick
in a Studebaker pickup. You had a practical purpose for doing
it, whereas I was just entertaining myself while delivering
items around town.

BoB

But brakes are biased to the front (60/40?).
You'll tend to slide the front brakes on a slippery stop.

jw
milwaukee

In my own opinion, i live in a town where it is either rainy, or snowy /
icy, so engine breaking has been very useful. for instance, i was driving
home last night, and rarely had to use the brake pedal. i control my speed
mostly with the accelerator and gear im in. there is a stretch at the end of
the highway where you go from 55 to 40 to 35, over a bridge, and back to 40,
and it just came natural to use engine braking and gear shifting to get
through that area than use the brakes going through that area and over the
bridge twice a day.. i have always been told that there is no problem
'letting the engine do some work'..

just my opinion
JB

<J999w> wrote:
The pressure on the disks is even, but the front has more stopping force
because of the weight shift. This happens with engine braking too.
--
Dominic Richens | dominic (AT) alumni (DOT) uottawa.ca
"If you're not *outraged*, you're not paying attention!"

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:50:43 GMT, j999w (AT) aol (DOT) com (J999w) wrote in
news:20040207125043.17130.00001623 (AT) mb-m03 (DOT) aol.com:

Brakes are biased because weight shift under braking puts
more weight on the front wheels even in a car with 50/50
static distribution and because locking only the rear wheels
causes an uncontrollable situation for many drivers.
Making sure the front wheels lock before the rears
is a basic form of stability control.

As for the comment someone made about brakes pitching
the car forward where engine braking doesn't, that
doesn't hold water. The pitching, or weight shift,
happens with either. The only difference may be that
using the brakes creates more stopping force which
will obviously produce more weight shift.

Brakes are alot cheaper than a clutch. For those who do
their own work, very much cheaper. Engine braking is
completely unnecesary in modern cars. Their capacity
to perform is much greater than cars of thirty years
ago.
Downshifting to put the car into the best gear after braking is
a better reason.

"Dave Null Sr." <lrowoy (AT) ShNotmail (DOT) com> wrote

The Forester manual suggested using engine brake more often.

al gu wrote:
Actually, you can downshift to engine brake - using the clutch - without
overtaxing it. Just match engine revs before releasing the clutch, so that
the engine is already going the correct speed for your new gear and road
speed. Wait until the clutch is fully released before lifting the throttle
to provide engine braking and spare your brakes. (Though I'm not sure that
sparing the brakes is a good reason to employ engine braking. I prefer to
use a lower gear in traffic because it gives me better control over my speed
with only the throttle. The trade-off, of course, is increased fuel
consumption. But with gasoline cheaper than bottled water here in the
'States...)

What destroys a clutch is excessive and prolonged speed differential between
the two plates. Raising engine RPM with the throttle to what it will be
with the clutch released *then* releasing the clutch doesn't cause any
additional wear. OTOH, shifting into a lower gear then letting the clutch
force the engine up to the appropriate revs for the new gear will definitely
increase clutch wear. As long as the speed differential between the engine
and the tranny is minimal, so will be the wear on the clutch.

Actually, one should *always* rev match when downshifting, if only to make
your driving smoother and thereby reduce neck strain in your passengers :-).
And I always try to double-clutch my downshifts to save the synchros as
well, but that's probably a bit over-the-top in a modern manual-transmission
car. Old habits, you know. I never got very good at using the heel and toe
of my right foot to operate the gas and brake pedals at once, so I don't
bother with the double-clutching if I'm on the brakes while downshifting.
The only time I do the heel-and-toe thing is accelerating from a stop on an
incline when some dork pulls right up on my bumper. Though I understand I
won't have to do that with my new Subie, since they all have that neat "hill
holder" feature.

And the only time I've ever shifted sans clutch is on a motorcycle. I've
never been brave enough to try it in a car. I can match revs pretty well,
but I don't get it perfect every time -- which is what would be required to
shift without the clutch. I suppose if I was in a pinch -- like with a
broken clutch cable -- I might give it a whirl. But I've fortunately never
been in such a pinch.

- Greg Reed

--
1976 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 9-Pass sedan
(FS: http://www.dataspire.com/caddy)
1989 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro 5-Speed sedan
2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon (when available in U.S.)




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uglymoney wrote:
.... or drive a stick ...

- Greg Reed

--
1976 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 9-Pass sedan
(FS: http://www.dataspire.com/caddy)
1989 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro 5-Speed sedan
2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon (when available in U.S.)




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On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:00:04 -0500, "Dominic Richens" <knob (AT) storm (DOT) ca>
wrote:

Do you even know what you mean?

David Betts
davidb (AT) motorsport (DOT) org.uk