R. Gerard wrote:
Indeed, I have a two & a half ton Land Rover that's still on it's orginal clutch after 240k miles!!!

What a load of bollocks he spouted!


Nige

--�
Subaru WRX (Annabel)

Landrover 110 County Station Wagon (Tyson)

'"Say hello to my little friend"

"David Betts" <dabetts (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com> wrote


Most of Subaru miles are probably driven in US and Australia
and from these people we hear the majority of complaints.

I think it is not the European (or Japanese) driver who on average
makes a tiny amount of miles per year and drives in a cool moist
climate that sees bearings and headgasket failures. I suspect both
these problematic Subaru issues may be somewhat related to higher
temps, and drier climates, where natural air cooling is poorer.

I know my bearings went out after two relatively prolonged
higher speed runs from Reno Nevada to Los Angeles CA in
95 degree weather (400 miles one way at an average speed of
80-90 mph), and a long hot summer trip through Arizona, from
Reno to Albuquerque New Mexico, and back.

US drivers, like myself, who have experienced problems may
not be just a tiny minority of Subaru owners worldwide as you
inconsiderately suggest but a subset of drivers who may be
discovering a defect hidden away from drivers in cool, moist,
parts of the world.


MN

Tom Reingold wrote:

Hi,

You're excluding American autos? I've known a lot of Ford and Chevy
owners who might disagree with you.

Rick

KLS wrote:

This is the part where you describe exactly what you mean by
"incompetently." :-) What, precisely, do people do to their manual
trannies?

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:41:31 GMT, "k. ote" <kote (AT) example (DOT) com> wrote:

People who use their clutches incompetently ride their clutches, viz.,
they don't fully depress or release the clutches when engaging the
gears. They also frequently depress the clutches at higher speeds (30
mph or so) and leave them depressed while braking rather than engaging
the appropriate gears. Another fun way to ruin a clutch is to rock
the car at a stop light by partially releasing the clutch and
depressing the gas just shy of engaging the gear rather than fully
depressing the clutch and waiting for the light to change before
releasing the clutch and fully engaging first gear. Just a few
examples.

I assume that clutch can only have chance to be ruined during engaging....
like depress half-way. but when fully depressed during brake, the clutch
plate ain't touched to anything, how come there still could be wear if you
fully depressed?!
"KLS" <xymergy (AT) suds (DOT) com> wrote

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 01:36:31 -0400, "grape" <j@s> wrote:

It won't. His other explanations of excessive clutch wear are correct,
however.

On the other hand, it is perfectly possible to destroy a clutch on a
WRX without doing any of these things, but simply by launching
enthusiastically on a regular basis. This, rather than generating
wheelspin and rubber smoke as with a conventional 2wd car, will fill
the car with the acrid stench of burning clutch material.

Correct technique if you want the clutch to last is to get the car
rolling whilst just on boost and release the clutch before flooring
ithe throttle. This way, you will disappear into the middle distance
just as quickly, but with far less fuss and at far less cost in the
longer term.

As I said previously, lots of people get through the clutch on their
first Rex in as little as 25,000 miles. Those of us who know what we
are doing can make them last 65,000 miles of mixed driving. If one
spent all one's time on freeways, no doubt it could be made to last
longer......or if one drove like an old lady all the time, but then
what's the point of owning a Rex <g>.

David Betts
davidb (AT) motorsport (DOT) org.uk

"DK" <dk (AT) no (DOT) email.thankstospam.net> wrote

I've been driving manuals since 1969, so I think I qualify as experienced.

The only time I got leg pain from a clutch was with a 1984 BMW 318i, while
driving through heavy traffic at a German border crossing. Back in those
days, border crossings - even between friendly countries - involved serious
examination of one's passport and questions about one's reason for crossing.
I remember being worried that the border guards might see my leg shaking and
wonder if something was amiss.

Probably the sturdiest clutch I've ever owned was on a 1976 Pinto.
Everything else on the car was falling apart or rusting away, but the clutch
survived a lot of friends and relatives taking their first lessons with a
manual, and was still going strong when I traded the car in.

I've had four Subaru - all with manual. The 1984 GL was noisy, cramped,
underpowered, difficult to handle (no power steering), and rust-prone. But
there was something comfortable about it, like an old pair of boots that you
just fit into so well. Even with years of hard use, the clutch did fine. I
sold it to my BIL who used it to deliver mail. He drove it until the engine
was worn out beyond repair, but the clutch was still doing fine. My 1990
Legacy and 1996 Outback both needed new clutches before they hit 60K miles.
I think I can confidently say this was not the result of being driven
improperly. My 2003 Outback seems to be doing well with 40K miles. Maybe the
hydraulic clutches are better that way.

I just got back from a two-week vacation in the UK. I drove a Ford Focus
over there. You tend to have a lot of things on your mind when trying to
adjust to driving on the other side of the road, but the car was reassuring
and responsive. Getting into reverse seemed to be more of a challenge than
usual - it often needed double-clutching to get the gears to mesh - but
everything else was good. When I got back to the States, I rented a Taurus
for the trip back from the airport. This was a terrifying experience. It was
big, it gave me no sense of where I was on the road, and the transmission
seemed like it was just choosing gears at random.

As a practical matter, I have to concede that there's no good reason to own
a manual anymore. Automatics (my own experience with the Taurus
notwithstanding) are more reliable, more economical, and probably cost less
to own. I've been through the routine with dealers so many times. When
buying: "Oh, so you want a manual. That will be hard to find. It's going to
cost you.." When selling: "Oh, so you have a manual. That will be hard to
sell. It's going to cost you." In spite of it all, I'll keep driving manuals
until either they stop making them or I'm too uncoordinated to handle them.
I only hope that they're still around when my kids start driving.

"grape" <j@s> wrote

It depends where you are. My current car is an automatic in So. Calif with lots of
stop and go traffic even on the freeways the auto is much easier. I can control the
speed of the car from stopping to moving with the motion of one foot. The right hand
is always free to enjoy your spouse instead of the stick shift.

You can get used to the manual transmission and in some instances it has an
advantage, but once you try the auto transmission,at least here in S. Cal, you don't
want to go back.

Adam

there are a few reason why I'd like to own a manual..
firstly, I've heard it's almost matianance-free, there are no fragile parts
like an auto tranny has.... people told me you don't have to worry about the
tranny in the car life time.

2ndly, it 's gass economic. auto tranny eats up gas too quick..

3rdly, I always liked machanics and me likes to play around with all kinds
of things...(my camry has been treated almost like a manual.), and I liked
sports, gears, and circuits, also I used to be an amateur athlete so my legs
are at least strong enough to tolerent the stop&go traffic with clutch.

the last reason is that it's a bit fun to drive, even though I don't like
race or whatsorta of *fun*.