GM, Ford sales seen down in March as trucks falter

Automotive News / March 30, 2007 - 9:52 am / UPDATED: 3/30/2007 4:17
P.M.

DETROIT (Reuters) -- U.S. sales for General Motors and Ford Motor Co.
were stuck in the slow lane in March as a weakening housing market
dampened pickup sales, even as Japanese rival Toyota Motor Corp. raced
ahead, analysts said.

Toyota and other Asian automakers have been relentlessly stealing U.S.
market share from Ford and GM on the strength of their sedans and
crossovers.

The slowdown in the U.S. housing market prompted many contractors, who
typically buy pickups, to delay purchases, hurting U.S. automakers,
analysts.

"Modest headwinds for the month could be a deterioration of consumer
confidence and continued housing weakness," Bear Stearns analyst Peter
Nesvold said in a research note.

Another area of concern for automakers is the implosion in the
subprime lending market, which analysts say has caused banks to
rethink their lending practices, not just for mortgages but autos as
well.

"Interest rates on new car loans in January rose to 6.45 percent, a
rate not seen in seven years," according to IRN Inc., which tracks the
market.

But Nesvold said despite the housing weakness and subprime mortgage
fears, the economy remains strong enough to support sales in the low-
to mid-16 million-unit range this year.

New U.S. vehicle sales are expected to come in at a seasonally
adjusted annual rate of between 16.2 million and 16.6 million vehicles
for March, according to analysts.

That would be slightly down to flat compared with last March's 16.6
million-unit rate.

Automakers will release March sales results on Tuesday, April 3.

Most analysts expected GM's sales to be down between 3 percent and 5
percent in March, while Ford sales were forecast to fall by as much as
17 percent.

Ford's chief sales analyst George Pipas told Reuters that sales likely
fell by a double-digit-percentage range, hurt by lower sales of its
best-selling F-series pickup.

"I can say with some confidence that we'll be down in the double
digits," Pipas said. "It's about comparison. The F series did much
better last year."

Sales for the Chrysler group are expected to be down between 5 percent
and 7 percent.

Toyota, on the other hand, is expected to post a sales increase of up
to 9 percent.

"Sales of passenger cars seem to continue to be very strong,
particularly the new Toyota Camry, the Yaris, as well as the Lexus LS
and ES," Lehman Brothers analyst Brian Johnson said in a note to
clients.

Toyota just added a $1,000 trade-in incentive nationwide on its new
Tundra pickup truck, which is competing against GM's new Chevrolet
Silverado and Ford's popular F series.

"We view this move as a negative development for the category,"
Johnson said, adding that Toyota's move could lead to a price war in
the hypercompetitive pickup segment.

A price war could be damaging for Ford's and Chrysler's profitability,
and could hurt GM as "its 2007 turnaround depends greatly on increased
contribution margins from its new pickups," Johnson said.

GM, Ford and Chrysler are all losing money, cutting jobs and reducing
production. All three are in the midst of executing a restructuring
plan to return their North American operations to profit.

Also, potential bidders have begun to size up Chrysler for a potential
acquisition after Daimler said in February it was leaving all options
open for the unit.

"Ed White" <ce.white3 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

*snip*

Wow, why parade your pain? To beat us to it?

Besides, we should have expected this, with gas prices steadily rising, no
matter what brand of truck.

Natalie

"Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Facts are facts.

Not my pain. Just because I think Toyotas are over hyped, over rated, and
WAY over priced doesn't mean I suffer because Toyota is are doing well. I
don't own stock in any domestic automaker and I am close enough to
retirement that it is not going to matter much to me that all the jobs have
moved off shore. What goes around comes around. I don't think Toyota can
fool all of the people all of the time.

Absolutely. To a certain extent, the domestic manufacturers are victims of
their own success. Trucks and SUVs were so profitable that they neglected
car lines. However, as I have pointed out more than once Toyota has been
following the exact same strategy. The only thing that is saving them is the
ready availability of models designed for other markets that they can ship
to the US. The most fuel efficient Toyota models are all imports. Some
Corollas are assembled in North America, but that is a tired old design.

Ed

"C. E. White"...
Well, I guess I'm a fool, and I doubt I'll ever "wise up" since their cars
have always been great. :-P Clearly it bothers you that the D3 are in
trouble, or you wouldn't tout them so much on the Toyota NG. That's your
right, of course, but I still resent that you think we're foolish to be
happy with our cars. You are not living our lives, and cannot know what
it's like to own our cars. It's insulting, and oh yeah, condescending. I
don't have a problem with your obvious bias against Toyotas, but please stop
talking down to us, as though we are idiots.
models (the ubiquitous Camry -*yawn*)

But looks are only a *small* factor for me, when it comes to cars.

Which may explain why I love my 2000 Echo.

:-)

Natalie

Ford truck sales may be down on the charts for the month, but Toyotas truck
sales bearly show up on those sales charts LOL


mike


"C. E. White" <cewhite3 (AT) mindspring (DOT) com> wrote

"Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote


It bothers me that so many American have decided that no domestic vehicles
are worthy of consideration. I know people who won't even consider a
domestic vehicle.There are 30 year old Americans who have never even driven
a domestic vehicle, yet they are willing to tout the superiority of foreign
vehicles. It bothers me when I see my fellow Americans loosing their jobs.
It bothers me when Ford starts building cars in Mexico so they can compete
on price. Maybe you don't know anyone who lost their automotive job, but I
do. It bothers me that Toyota was allowed to build its business in a
protected market while our government made rules that in the long run made
the US domestic industry less competitive.

I never called you a fool or an idiot. I don't think I am superior to you
(although I am sure we each know more about some things than the other
does). I do have my opinions and I don't mind sharing them. Naturally I
think they are well founded, but I have made a few mistakes in the past, and
may well make more mistakes in the future. If you find my expressions of my
opinions condescending, maybe you need to figure out why someone who doesn't
agree with your opinions bothers you so much. I certainly don't lose any
sleep when someone says bad things about my Nissan Frontier. I may try to
explain why I don't agree, but I won't accuse them of trying to insult me. I
do dislike it when some people turn things into personal attacks, but I try
not to do that and I don't think I have ever made any personal attacks
against you. When someone makes what I believe is an incorrect statement,
then I will try to correct them. If someone expresses an opinion I don't
agree with, then I don't mind expressing my divergent opinion. This is not
being condescending. Disagreeing with a person is not the same as calling
them an idiot or talking down to them. If you don't agree with someone and
you keep you mouth shut, chances are they will take that as tacit agreement
(even if it isn't). Mike Hunter might justifiably call me condescending, but
I don't think you should.

Here are some of my opinions on Toyota:

1) I believe Toyota has ands is still engaging in deceptive marketing
practices. The current Tundra ads are some of the most deceptive ads I've
ever seen. The inflated horsepower numbers form a couple of years ago is
another example. Yet another is the deceptive loan practices of Toyota's
financing arm.

2) I believe Toyota has "dumped" products on the US market in an attempt to
drive competitors out of business. They can write off development costs
against vehicles sold in the relatively protected Japanese market and then
sell low end vehicles in the US at less than US manufacturers can develop
and manufacture competitive vehicles.

3) I don't believe Toyota vehicles in general are significantly worse than
other major manufacturer's products, but I don't think they are
significantly better either. I can't prove this, but I don't think you can
prove the opposite. A collection of apocryphal stories is not data.

4) I have owned a Toyota. I know people who currently own Toyotas. I
regularly drive my SO's Toyota. I might even buy a Toyota some day. And
ironically I tried to talk my Sister into at least trying a Toyota when she
was car shopping (anything is better than a VW in my mind).

5) I believe the press gives Toyota a relatively free ride on recalls, while
publicizing any recall by a domestic manufacturer as if it was the end of
the world.

6) If you took any article on the Toyota Sludge problems and replaced
"Toyota" with "Chevrolet" many Toyota apologists would immediately believe
the article was accurate and than the sludge was totally GMs fault.

7) Toyota tries to cover-up evidence of problems. For a prime example read
the documents on the NHTSA web site with regards to Tundra/Tacoma ball joint
failures. Toyota restricts access to their service bulletins. Unlike the
domestic manufacturers you can't go to Alldata and get a current list of
Toyota TSBs. Unless you are willing to pay for access, there is no easy way
to see if there is a TSB describing a problem with a Toyota. You can go to
the NHTSA web site and search for TSB that describe "safety" problems, but
unlike domestic manufacturers, Toyota tends to feel that only a very few
TSBs decribe safety problems, so only a relatively few TSBs are listed
there.

8) Toyotas are over-priced compared to similar vehicles from other
manufacturers (foreign and domestic)

9) Toyota charges to much for replacement parts.

10) Toyota dealers tend to be less responsive than most other brands. I fell
this is a result of Toyota recent marketing gains - too few dealers for the
volume of cars being sold. Within 30 miles of where I set, there are 7 Ford
dealers, 7 Chevrolet dealers and 3 Toyota dealers. When I was trying to buy
a pick-up truck I found the local Toyota dealer to be impossible to deal
with. They sometimes quoted low prices, but then under valued a trade in and
tried to tack on ridiculous extra fees.

If it suits you, then what does it matter what I think. I liked Pintos (I
owned 2). I often defend Pintos, particualrly when people who have never
owned or driven a Pinto start using them as an example of a bad car. I don't
lose a lot of sleep becasue some people contuinue to think Pintos were bad
cars. You shouldn't lose any sleep becasue I don't think Echos are the apex
of automotive developement. If there was only one "right" car, then things
would be very boring.

Ed

Great post. And I whole heartedly agree with you. I've worked on both
foreign and domestic, as you are well aware. What you described about toys
deceptive practices is completely true. I've seen it with my own eyes and
was told to do it that way. I have also said the jap scrap was no better and
I still believe that. I also believe that the domestics are just as good or
better, but toy owners refuse to believe that also. I currently own a 500 hp
91 gt fox body stang that I built, and is in off the production line
condition, and has never given me a mechanical problem aside from the fact
that it is finicky, and you would know why. I also have a 96 contour V6
which is my wife's car and has over 100k on the clock with just a water pump
replacement. That due to the stator vanes being plastic, which broke and
burnt out the impeller bearings. My other car is a 01 Sonata, which has been
good, except for the paint peeling off the door handles due to poor
workmanship, no primer on the plastic, and which they refused to deal with
because it was 2 months over the 3 year paint warranty which was a piss poor
excuse for excusing the quality of the paint job. I've owned a Camry which
was also decent, but around 50k's the cam lobs were worn, which was also
unacceptable and toy would not cover it. I was a mech at a toy dealership at
the time. That soured me on toys. All in all, they all make decent vehicles.
"C. E. White" <cewhite (AT) mindspring (DOT) com> wrote

"C. E. White" <cewhite (AT) mindspring (DOT) com> wrote

It's condescending to say we're being "fooled" for one And I, and others on
the Toyota NG have said multiple times that we think domestic car makers do
a good job with *certain types* of vehicles; large ones, for instance, but
you keep saying we're refusing to see that we should have bought domestic
instead. What I resent is someone who obviously has a bias against a
product/subject, yet continues to troll those he knows do not agree with
him. In that way, you're no different from Mike. Having said that, you
only make yourself look like the boy who cried wolf most of the time. I
guess it bothers me that you're so bitter about an effing car, for crying
out loud.

The one Subaru I ever owned was a total POS, yet I'd consider another in a
heartbeat - why? Because I trust that "anecdotal evidence" you are so fond
of dismissing.

And as for keeping my mouth shut, you should consider the same when someone
disputes your claims. If you can counterpoint, why can't those of us who
are happy with our vehicles do the same? Sounds like a double standard to
me.

Your disagreeing with me is not the issue - plenty of others do on *many*
subjects, so I have a fairly thick skin in that regard. It's your refusal
to acknowledge that our opinions may be valid too.
Like GM/Ford haven't? Puh-leeze. You have to take any marketing with a
grain of salt, and seek your data elsewhere, including personal experiences
of yourself and others.

Probably true, but so far their "trash" is way better than what I've tried
to get domestically - I'm talking small cars only, since that's all I've
ever bought.
I trust that data to a point - hasn't failed me yet. When it does, I'll let
you know. Seriously.

And I've owned some really shitty other domestic cars, as have my
friends/family. Late model (late 80s to present) have been nothing but
headaches for them. Again, I'm talking *small* cars. Those with trucks,
minivans, etc, are perfectly happy with them, which is why I would consider
*domestic first* with large vehicles.
Bullshit - how many Toyota recalls involved serious/deadly defects? Way
less than the D3. Personally, I don't know of any exploding Toyotas, but
maybe there were.
That's probably true - I think the press is too hard on D3. We can agree
there. It seems the recent failures were not just because of the vehicles,
but the gross mismanagement.
Yeah, and how many have died from that? Not that I don't believe what
you're saying, but what have been the results? Again, I would probably not
buy a Toyota truck anyway.
No doubt. But I'd rather pay more to take it home than to keep it.
Absolutely, but see #8 response.
Yeah, one bad dealer, and you condemn all Toyota dealers? Ridiculous. A
bad dealer does not a bad car make.
I'll accept that if you will.

Natalie

What exploding car myth are you talking about. It was dismissed cause a show
deliberately caused the explosion after many numerous attempts to make it so
through an actual car impact failed to make the gas tank explode. Any
vehicle can have their tank explode if you set charges to it.
"Wickeddoll®" <wickeddoll1958diespammersdie (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

"razz" <razz (AT) mts (DOT) net> wrote


*snip*

http://www.crownvictoriasafetyalert.com/

I remember reading about and seeing this on the news this a long time ago -
in real newspapers, with real cops and their survivors describing the
tragedies.

Natalie