It just amazes me that you can buy a car for
$15,000 like the Corolla and it will have a better
long-term "JD Power" mechanical dependability rating
after 5 years than a car that costs a whole lot more
like a Mercedes, Cadillac, or Jaguar. Am I interpreting
the JD Power surveys wrongly?

For example, the '97 Corolla gets 4 stars in the
JD Power survey for mechanical dependability
compared to just 3 stars for a '97 S-Class Mercedes.

TenPercent wrote:

That's correct. The Germans just don't build cars like they used to. :-(

Anyone know why JD Powers doesn't include surveys
of Rolls Royce, Ferrari, and Lotus owners in their
automobile rankings? They include Lexus, Jag, and
Mercedes owners.

"TenPercent" <tenpercent (AT) not-real-address (DOT) com> wrote

But what are they actually surveying? How reliable is the survey? Isn't
there a lot more to go wrong with a Mercedes than a Corolla? Are Mercedes
owner more or less likely to report problems that Toyota owners? Most of
these surveys depend on people deciding what is serious - do Toyota and
Mercedes owners have the same opinion of what is serious? My sister will
tell you her Honda has never had a problem - except I know the drivers side
visor just fell of, the muffler has been replaced twice, the plug wires
failed, paint is falling off the bumpers, and wheel covers, etc. However, if
JD Powers surveyed my sister, Honda would look pretty damn good. If they
asked me, they would look pretty bad (I would claim at least 5 problems, she
would claim none). From what I've seen Toyota owners will put up with a lot
more crap than Mercedes owners. Isn't it possible this skews the results?

I am not sure where JD Powers is getting the data to determine the stars. I
am assuming that it is coming from past results of the Vehicle Dependability
Study. The 2005 version of this study is on line at
http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...05089&search=1 .
Take a look at this. Doesn't it make you wonder about the significance of
their data collection when Buick, Lincoln, and Cadillac all out scored
Toyota? Or that Mercury scored significantly higher than Ford and Buick
scored way higher than Pontiac? Do you really think the survey is good
enough to be significant to the level that you can say that Toyota with an
average of 1.94 problem per vehicle is really better than Ford that has an
average of 2.31 problems per vehicle? Especially when Mercury had 1.95
problems per vehicle? Looks to me, given all the possible sources of error,
there is not much difference between any of the major brands. And certainly,
a Toyota is not worth thousands more because you might have 0.37 fewer
problems than a Ford. But if you do think this, why wouldn't you buy a
Buick, which averages, according to this survey, only 1.63 problems per car.

Prior year surveys are available at:

http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...04055&search=1
http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...03050&search=1
http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...02141&search=1
http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...=2074&search=1

The differences are too small to be significant, and certainly not a reasons
to buy a Toyota if you like one of the other brands better for other reasons
(style, features, cost, etc.). Now if you just want to prove how smart you
are for buying a Toyota instead of a Mercedes, I won't argue with you.

Ed

"TenPercent" <tenpercent (AT) not-real-address (DOT) com> wrote

Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Lotus, Bentley, etc. do not sell high enough numbers
for significant statistics.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

C. E. White wrote:
Precisely and from what I've read, Americans who buy American branded cars
are the bitchyest of the lot. At the same time, they're the least likely to
perform routine maintenance properly. Whereas, Toyota and Honda owners
typically do routine maintenance and tend to overlook things that would have
their American counterparts at the dealership complaining. And, when
something does go wrong, they blames themselves. Go figure.

Actually Mercedes never built reliable cars. In the late 70's a doctor
friend once told me that the 2 greatest days in the life of a doctor is when
he gets his first Mercedes, and when he trades it in.


"High Tech Misfit" <me (AT) privacy (DOT) net> wrote

Well said.

Also consider the value of the American car versus Toyota. I will be the
first to tell you that my 2001 Avalon is more reliable than my 99 300M. I
am saying this even though my 300M is older and has more than twice the
miles but I am willing to anticipate that the Avalon will have virtually
nothing go wrong with it for the next few years. Even so the 300M is the
better value. You get a lot more for the money and even though you might
have a repair every few years, the Avalon has constant designed in
annoyances which cannot be fixed like seatbelts with inadequate retraction
springs, rattles and clicks, sinking brake pedal as the engine slows down, a
worthless auto climate control system, and much more.


"C. E. White" <cewhite (AT) mindspring (DOT) com> wrote

"C. E. White" <cewhite (AT) mindspring (DOT) com> wrote

You do bring up good points, but keep in mind one important thing. When JD
Power comes out with these studies, the auto manufacturers do not challenge
them. They take the data and work with it. Many industries live and die by
this report. It has a lot of scrutiny, and is in line with other
independents like Consumer Reports.

However, I can tell you, even though I am a Toyota person, I would probably
buy the Ford F-150 truck. I think Ford has that one built well. I don't
think a Tundra can touch it. JD Power rates the F150 very well, and I
believe them enough to put my money there.

Yes

mike hunt


"TenPercent" <tenpercent (AT) not-real-address (DOT) com> wrote