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My engineer neighbor's approach to oil change breaking in his truck ?
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#11
 
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Re: My engineer neighbor's approach to oil change breaking in his truck ? -
09-05-2006
, 05:38 PM
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"Big Blue" <aclaritan (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:6p6rf21crcs0cc4qtqlgajserdefij11lo (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... Then it would be more pressure to add unnecessary intervals to scare the customers to change oils more often, not less. No, they have to balance the warranty cost with the competitors maintenance interval. Every Honda salesman knows the differences (if any) between the Honda and Toyota maintenance interval, and if it is to their advantage, the will mention it to every customer. |
1) Automakers want to make sure their cars are taken care of properly,
especially early on so they don't have to pay costly warranty repairs
due to bad "break-in"
2) You claimed that vehicle maintenance interval are more influential
by bean counters than engineers. Unless you work in upper-management
in Toyota I think this premise is bogus if not laughable. Toyota
didn't become the #1 reliable car in the industry by listening to bean
counters instead of their engineers.
3) Assuming Toyota engineers do know what they are talking about
(sacrasm), there's no reason to be suspicious of their lack of
break-in requirement like so many other cars have.
#12
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On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:42:04 -0500, "Ray O" rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: "MO full name" <nospam (AT) hole (DOT) org> wrote in message news:l7mrf2pduo718d7f3pvns9u1cs2cbode52 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:15:35 -0500, "Ray O" rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: "Forrest" <ForrestPalmer (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:4eiqf25liipmo7v69m66imd98iht7skpqa (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... A friend and neighbor, who is a retired engineer and has knowledge and experience with things mechanical, including cars, told me just now that he broke in his 1999 Ford 150 Lightning truck by changing the original factory oil at 1000 miles and then again at 2500 and then at 5000 and has kept to 5K, with synthetic, for changes since. I know that engines are machined to a greater quality of tolerances than those of 20 years ago, which then included a free dealer oil change at 500 miles to flush out the metal filings etc, but would you agree that it makes sense to use a break in sequence, such as this, at this time, with our new Toyota 4Runner - rather than the published approach, which is to just do nothing until 5k miles and then change to Synthetic, if I wished to ? I don't mind the extra expense, even the cost of synthetic, and filter changes, in exchange for any benefits that breaking in in a preferable way would provide, if they so exist. It is possible that such a break in sequence would be a bit too daunting or complex for non machine minded consumers and Toyota, although it might so prefer it this way, just leaves the change at 5K miles to simplify things. Thanks, Forrest The reason that Toyota does not specify the break-in sequence that your engineer neighbor described is because it is not necessary for Toyotas. Believe it or not, the folks at Toyota are pretty knowledgeable about the products they design and build. I spent 15 years working for the automaker and have broken in close to 100 new Toyotas. You will not go wrong following the advice in the owner's manual - that is what I do. ;-) If you change the oil too soon, it takes longer for the rings to seat and the engine will get poorer performance and poorer fuel economy. So what if you only have about 2500 miles at six months (and not the 5000) - give up one for the other? M If it takes six months to put the first 2,500 miles on the odometer, the best thing to do would be to take a 2,500 mile road trip. The worst thing you can do for a vehicle is take short trips without ever getting the engine, transmission, and exhaust good and hot. Nasty stuff accumulates in the oil, the exhaust doesn't dry out so it corrodes more quickly, the tires get cracked, etc. Otherwise, change the oil based on time, not mileage. Is it that critical to make longer trips? Are cars not made for normal go to the store only stuff? 2500 mi = $300 for gas Is it worth that much? M |
for extra oil changes to do what is best for the vehicle, I suggested
something that actually is better for the vehicle. It is not really
necessary to put 2,500 more miles on the vehicle. At least once a month,
drive the vehicle for at least an hour at speeds above 50 MPH. You will do
the vehicle a much better service than performing unnecessary oil changes.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
#13
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You are not making any sense. Let me spell it out for you. 1) Automakers want to make sure their cars are taken care of properly, especially early on so they don't have to pay costly warranty repairs due to bad "break-in" 2) You claimed that vehicle maintenance interval are more influential by bean counters than engineers. Unless you work in upper-management in Toyota I think this premise is bogus if not laughable. Toyota didn't become the #1 reliable car in the industry by listening to bean counters instead of their engineers. 3) Assuming Toyota engineers do know what they are talking about (sacrasm), there's no reason to be suspicious of their lack of break-in requirement like so many other cars have. |
is sales and marketing expense according to the FASB (Financial Accounting
Standards Board). I can absolutely guarantee you that the sales and
marketing divisions of Toyota have final say on maintenance intervals and
warranty periods. I don't know why you call them bean counters, they are
sales and marketing.
In fact, the warranty and maintenance interval may be different depending on
which country the cars are sold in. So the exact same cars made in a
Japanese factory can have a different warranties and maintenance intervals
because they are sold by different Toyota marketing divisions in response to
local competition and local laws regarding warranties.
The "engineers" may have input in the decision, but the factory gets the
same amount of money allocated to their internal accounting books (cost of
goods sold to the marketing divisions) regardless of which marketing
division sells the car, and regardless of the warranty and maintenance
interval, and regardless of selling price. As has been noted in the past,
cars sold in Europe (including Toyotas) have much longer maintenance
intervals than in the US.
Hyundai does not offer a 10 year warranty because their cars are much more
reliable than Honda or Toyota. They offer the warranty to mitigate for the
fact that they are LESS reliable than Honda and Toyota. It is a sales and
marketing technique based on a calculated equation of how much extra they
will have to pay for warranty expense versus how many more cars they will
end up selling because of the better warranty.
You ought to get a real job in a major manufacturing corporation before you
start talking about things you know nothing about.
#14
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If it takes six months to put the first 2,500 miles on the odometer, the best thing to do would be to take a 2,500 mile road trip. The worst thing you can do for a vehicle is take short trips without ever getting the engine, transmission, and exhaust good and hot. Nasty stuff accumulates in the oil, the exhaust doesn't dry out so it corrodes more quickly, the tires get cracked, etc. |
either. It's best to vary the load and the RPM's.
#15
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On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:57:29 GMT, Forrest <ForrestPalmer (AT) yahoo (DOT) com wrote: A friend and neighbor, who is a retired engineer and has knowledge and experience with things mechanical, including cars, told me just now that he broke in his 1999 Ford 150 Lightning truck by changing the original factory oil at 1000 miles and then again at 2500 and then at 5000 and has kept to 5K, with synthetic, for changes since. I know that engines are machined to a greater quality of tolerances than those of 20 years ago, which then included a free dealer oil change at 500 miles to flush out the metal filings etc, but would you agree that it makes sense to use a break in sequence, such as this, at this time, with our new Toyota 4Runner - rather than the published approach, which is to just do nothing until 5k miles and then change to Synthetic, if I wished to ? I don't mind the extra expense, even the cost of synthetic, and filter changes, in exchange for any benefits that breaking in in a preferable way would provide, if they so exist. It is possible that such a break in sequence would be a bit too daunting or complex for non machine minded consumers and Toyota, although it might so prefer it this way, just leaves the change at 5K miles to simplify things. Thanks, Forrest Always go with manufacture schedule. If there's anybody that don't have to screw up their car it's them. If they feel that making you change early would make their car lasts longer they would of say so. Since they didn't, you can bet that you really don't need to change it early. It's hard to deal with paradigm shifts, but technology does improve. This country took 30 years to get people away from the 1,500 miles oil change interval |
even 7000 for "normal" service, and 3000 was the "severe" schedule.
But then, I swear a lot these days :/
Quote:
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to convince them that they really only needed to change oil every 3,000 miles. Now it seems like it will take equally long before people really believe that you can last 5,000 miles between intervals on regular conventional oil. |
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#16
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Ray O wrote: If it takes six months to put the first 2,500 miles on the odometer, the best thing to do would be to take a 2,500 mile road trip. The worst thing you can do for a vehicle is take short trips without ever getting the engine, transmission, and exhaust good and hot. Nasty stuff accumulates in the oil, the exhaust doesn't dry out so it corrodes more quickly, the tires get cracked, etc. Well, you don't want to break-in an engine with freeway droning, either. It's best to vary the load and the RPM's. |
to the highway, at the rate of about 1,000 miles per week, new car every 12
weeks. Most of the people in our office drove about the same amount, and
friends and relatives often bought those cars. A friend just got rid of my
former demos (1986 Celica GTS) with about 375,000 miles because it was going
to need a clutch. IMO, there is no need to avoid steady highway speeds.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
#17
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Well, you don't want to break-in an engine with freeway droning, either. It's best to vary the load and the RPM's. |
sdb
--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
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#18
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"Forrest" <ForrestPalmer (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:4eiqf25liipmo7v69m66imd98iht7skpqa (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... A friend and neighbor, who is a retired engineer and has knowledge and experience with things mechanical, including cars, told me just now that he broke in his 1999 Ford 150 Lightning truck by changing the original factory oil at 1000 miles and then again at 2500 and then at 5000 and has kept to 5K, with synthetic, for changes since. I know that engines are machined to a greater quality of tolerances than those of 20 years ago, which then included a free dealer oil change at 500 miles to flush out the metal filings etc, but would you agree that it makes sense to use a break in sequence, such as this, at this time, with our new Toyota 4Runner - rather than the published approach, which is to just do nothing until 5k miles and then change to Synthetic, if I wished to ? I don't mind the extra expense, even the cost of synthetic, and filter changes, in exchange for any benefits that breaking in in a preferable way would provide, if they so exist. It is possible that such a break in sequence would be a bit too daunting or complex for non machine minded consumers and Toyota, although it might so prefer it this way, just leaves the change at 5K miles to simplify things. Thanks, Forrest The reason that Toyota does not specify the break-in sequence that your engineer neighbor described is because it is not necessary for Toyotas. Believe it or not, the folks at Toyota are pretty knowledgeable about the products they design and build. I spent 15 years working for the automaker and have broken in close to 100 new Toyotas. You will not go wrong following the advice in the owner's manual - that is what I do. ;-) If you change the oil too soon, it takes longer for the rings to seat and the engine will get poorer performance and poorer fuel economy. |
rings seating best with conventional oil at first, before switching to
synthetic. I am pondering this but don't quite see why conventional
oil and r lack of slipperiness of synthetic is preferable for the
rings. Seating I would assume is having each cylinder wall mate up
well with the piston rings.
Could you elaborate on the element of changing the oil too soon /.
rings seating, and or if too much trouble, possibly refer me to some
location which elaborates on this factor of ensuring the rings seat
properly ?
thanks
Forrest
#19
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Those 100 or so cars I broke in were driven from the port of entry right on to the highway, at the rate of about 1,000 miles per week, new car every 12 weeks. Most of the people in our office drove about the same amount, and friends and relatives often bought those cars. A friend just got rid of my former demos (1986 Celica GTS) with about 375,000 miles because it was going to need a clutch. IMO, there is no need to avoid steady highway speeds. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply) |
beneficial to ring bedding and power output, expecially on motorbike
engines where a noticable % increase in power was gained from parallel
experiments of light and high load break-ins on identical machines.
I dont know which to believe!
J
#20
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Theres some evidence that pushing the car very hard during break-in is beneficial to ring bedding and power output, expecially on motorbike engines where a noticable % increase in power was gained from parallel experiments of light and high load break-ins on identical machines. |
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