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My engineer neighbor's approach to oil change breaking in his truck ?
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#21
 
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Re: My engineer neighbor's approach to oil change breaking in his truck ? -
09-06-2006
, 08:09 AM
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Coyoteboy wrote: Theres some evidence that pushing the car very hard during break-in is beneficial to ring bedding and power output, expecially on motorbike engines where a noticable % increase in power was gained from parallel experiments of light and high load break-ins on identical machines. Are the motorbike engines aircooled and/or two stroke? |
Heres a similar link:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
#22
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Ray O wrote: Those 100 or so cars I broke in were driven from the port of entry right on to the highway, at the rate of about 1,000 miles per week, new car every 12 weeks. Most of the people in our office drove about the same amount, and friends and relatives often bought those cars. A friend just got rid of my former demos (1986 Celica GTS) with about 375,000 miles because it was going to need a clutch. IMO, there is no need to avoid steady highway speeds. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply) Theres some evidence that pushing the car very hard during break-in is beneficial to ring bedding and power output, expecially on motorbike engines where a noticable % increase in power was gained from parallel experiments of light and high load break-ins on identical machines. I dont know which to believe! J |
break in a car is the way it will "behave" after it is broken in, kind of
like training a horse.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
#23
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The common wisdom among the people that I worked with is that the way you break in a car is the way it will "behave" after it is broken in, kind of like training a horse. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply) |
specific break-in process.
#24
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On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:15:35 -0500, "Ray O" rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: "Forrest" <ForrestPalmer (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:4eiqf25liipmo7v69m66imd98iht7skpqa (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... A friend and neighbor, who is a retired engineer and has knowledge and experience with things mechanical, including cars, told me just now that he broke in his 1999 Ford 150 Lightning truck by changing the original factory oil at 1000 miles and then again at 2500 and then at 5000 and has kept to 5K, with synthetic, for changes since. I know that engines are machined to a greater quality of tolerances than those of 20 years ago, which then included a free dealer oil change at 500 miles to flush out the metal filings etc, but would you agree that it makes sense to use a break in sequence, such as this, at this time, with our new Toyota 4Runner - rather than the published approach, which is to just do nothing until 5k miles and then change to Synthetic, if I wished to ? I don't mind the extra expense, even the cost of synthetic, and filter changes, in exchange for any benefits that breaking in in a preferable way would provide, if they so exist. It is possible that such a break in sequence would be a bit too daunting or complex for non machine minded consumers and Toyota, although it might so prefer it this way, just leaves the change at 5K miles to simplify things. Thanks, Forrest The reason that Toyota does not specify the break-in sequence that your engineer neighbor described is because it is not necessary for Toyotas. Believe it or not, the folks at Toyota are pretty knowledgeable about the products they design and build. I spent 15 years working for the automaker and have broken in close to 100 new Toyotas. You will not go wrong following the advice in the owner's manual - that is what I do. ;-) If you change the oil too soon, it takes longer for the rings to seat and the engine will get poorer performance and poorer fuel economy. Ray, thanks. I have seen another post say something similar about the rings seating best with conventional oil at first, before switching to synthetic. I am pondering this but don't quite see why conventional oil and r lack of slipperiness of synthetic is preferable for the rings. Seating I would assume is having each cylinder wall mate up well with the piston rings. Could you elaborate on the element of changing the oil too soon /. rings seating, and or if too much trouble, possibly refer me to some location which elaborates on this factor of ensuring the rings seat properly ? thanks Forrest |
that the majority of people posting information have little or no
engineering or scientific background, and you can find hundreds of articles
and posts, each with an opinion on why their break-in method is better than
others.
IMO, the best source of automotive engineering information is the Society of
Automotive Engineers, but they charge for access to their articles, and I
have let my membership lapse because I no longer work for an automaker.
I did find an article about aircraft engine break-in by someone from Cessna
that seems to do a good job of explaining what is going on:
http://www.cessna.org/benefits/articles/breakin.html
As far as switching to synthetic oil soon, Toyota's faq section recommends
that you not switch to synthetic oil before the first recommended oil change
interval. Toyota's web site has pretty good information - go to
www.toyota.com, in the "About Toyota" tab, go to the "Search/Help" link,
then click on the faq link and search "synthetic oil."
I have never seen a recommendation from Toyota that suggests that there is
anything to be gained by performing the first oil change at 500 or 1,000
miles, and I have never done it in any of the 100 or so new cars I have
broken in.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
#25
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"MO full name" <nospam (AT) hole (DOT) org> wrote in message news:ijqrf2hhe5bt140no9jbq999luh0lt6lq3 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:42:04 -0500, "Ray O" rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: "MO full name" <nospam (AT) hole (DOT) org> wrote in message news:l7mrf2pduo718d7f3pvns9u1cs2cbode52 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:15:35 -0500, "Ray O" rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: "Forrest" <ForrestPalmer (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:4eiqf25liipmo7v69m66imd98iht7skpqa (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... A friend and neighbor, who is a retired engineer and has knowledge and experience with things mechanical, including cars, told me just now that he broke in his 1999 Ford 150 Lightning truck by changing the original factory oil at 1000 miles and then again at 2500 and then at 5000 and has kept to 5K, with synthetic, for changes since. I know that engines are machined to a greater quality of tolerances than those of 20 years ago, which then included a free dealer oil change at 500 miles to flush out the metal filings etc, but would you agree that it makes sense to use a break in sequence, such as this, at this time, with our new Toyota 4Runner - rather than the published approach, which is to just do nothing until 5k miles and then change to Synthetic, if I wished to ? I don't mind the extra expense, even the cost of synthetic, and filter changes, in exchange for any benefits that breaking in in a preferable way would provide, if they so exist. It is possible that such a break in sequence would be a bit too daunting or complex for non machine minded consumers and Toyota, although it might so prefer it this way, just leaves the change at 5K miles to simplify things. Thanks, Forrest The reason that Toyota does not specify the break-in sequence that your engineer neighbor described is because it is not necessary for Toyotas. Believe it or not, the folks at Toyota are pretty knowledgeable about the products they design and build. I spent 15 years working for the automaker and have broken in close to 100 new Toyotas. You will not go wrong following the advice in the owner's manual - that is what I do. ;-) If you change the oil too soon, it takes longer for the rings to seat and the engine will get poorer performance and poorer fuel economy. So what if you only have about 2500 miles at six months (and not the 5000) - give up one for the other? M If it takes six months to put the first 2,500 miles on the odometer, the best thing to do would be to take a 2,500 mile road trip. The worst thing you can do for a vehicle is take short trips without ever getting the engine, transmission, and exhaust good and hot. Nasty stuff accumulates in the oil, the exhaust doesn't dry out so it corrodes more quickly, the tires get cracked, etc. Otherwise, change the oil based on time, not mileage. Is it that critical to make longer trips? Are cars not made for normal go to the store only stuff? 2500 mi = $300 for gas Is it worth that much? M No, it is not critical, but since you mentioned that you were willing to pay for extra oil changes to do what is best for the vehicle, I suggested something that actually is better for the vehicle. It is not really necessary to put 2,500 more miles on the vehicle. At least once a month, drive the vehicle for at least an hour at speeds above 50 MPH. You will do the vehicle a much better service than performing unnecessary oil changes. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply) |
#26
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"Forrest" <ForrestPalmer (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:5i0tf2dr52h2d2je6drjp69qc0dveor24m (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:15:35 -0500, "Ray O" rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: "Forrest" <ForrestPalmer (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:4eiqf25liipmo7v69m66imd98iht7skpqa (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... A friend and neighbor, who is a retired engineer and has knowledge and experience with things mechanical, including cars, told me just now that he broke in his 1999 Ford 150 Lightning truck by changing the original factory oil at 1000 miles and then again at 2500 and then at 5000 and has kept to 5K, with synthetic, for changes since. I know that engines are machined to a greater quality of tolerances than those of 20 years ago, which then included a free dealer oil change at 500 miles to flush out the metal filings etc, but would you agree that it makes sense to use a break in sequence, such as this, at this time, with our new Toyota 4Runner - rather than the published approach, which is to just do nothing until 5k miles and then change to Synthetic, if I wished to ? I don't mind the extra expense, even the cost of synthetic, and filter changes, in exchange for any benefits that breaking in in a preferable way would provide, if they so exist. It is possible that such a break in sequence would be a bit too daunting or complex for non machine minded consumers and Toyota, although it might so prefer it this way, just leaves the change at 5K miles to simplify things. Thanks, Forrest The reason that Toyota does not specify the break-in sequence that your engineer neighbor described is because it is not necessary for Toyotas. Believe it or not, the folks at Toyota are pretty knowledgeable about the products they design and build. I spent 15 years working for the automaker and have broken in close to 100 new Toyotas. You will not go wrong following the advice in the owner's manual - that is what I do. ;-) If you change the oil too soon, it takes longer for the rings to seat and the engine will get poorer performance and poorer fuel economy. Ray, thanks. I have seen another post say something similar about the rings seating best with conventional oil at first, before switching to synthetic. I am pondering this but don't quite see why conventional oil and r lack of slipperiness of synthetic is preferable for the rings. Seating I would assume is having each cylinder wall mate up well with the piston rings. Could you elaborate on the element of changing the oil too soon /. rings seating, and or if too much trouble, possibly refer me to some location which elaborates on this factor of ensuring the rings seat properly ? thanks Forrest The problem I found with researching new engine break-in on the internet is that the majority of people posting information have little or no engineering or scientific background, and you can find hundreds of articles and posts, each with an opinion on why their break-in method is better than others. IMO, the best source of automotive engineering information is the Society of Automotive Engineers, but they charge for access to their articles, and I have let my membership lapse because I no longer work for an automaker. I did find an article about aircraft engine break-in by someone from Cessna that seems to do a good job of explaining what is going on: http://www.cessna.org/benefits/articles/breakin.html As far as switching to synthetic oil soon, Toyota's faq section recommends that you not switch to synthetic oil before the first recommended oil change interval. Toyota's web site has pretty good information - go to www.toyota.com, in the "About Toyota" tab, go to the "Search/Help" link, then click on the faq link and search "synthetic oil." I have never seen a recommendation from Toyota that suggests that there is anything to be gained by performing the first oil change at 500 or 1,000 miles, and I have never done it in any of the 100 or so new cars I have broken in. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply) |
#27
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I've never understood why people want to change the oil on a new car after 500 miles. They seem to be worried about shavings in the oil from manufacturing, but shouldn't the oil filter take them out? |
who reads a lot of car magazines and thinks he is an expert.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
#28
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On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 14:50:35 -0500, "Ray O" rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: "Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE (AT) mindspring (DOT) com> wrote in message news:KrFLg.6958$xQ1.2728 (AT) newsread3 (DOT) news.pas.earthlink.net... I've never understood why people want to change the oil on a new car after 500 miles. They seem to be worried about shavings in the oil from manufacturing, but shouldn't the oil filter take them out? It is an urban legend, probably started by the oil companies or by someone who reads a lot of car magazines and thinks he is an expert. About 50 years ago I recall seeing a used John Deere 'open type' oil filter covered with what looked like cat hairs - but were actually metal shavings from engine parts. This was not the last leg of engine failure. M |
one no longer expects to find metal shavings in the oil pan of a new engine.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
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