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OT: If Tookie really is sorry
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#21
 
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Re: OT: If Tookie really is sorry -
12-15-2005
, 08:47 PM
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In article <WeKdnb0aeNAQVj3eRVn-tw (AT) ez2 (DOT) net>, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote: "FanJet" <FanJet27 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:439d8e6f$0$8183$6d3edbfc (AT) news (DOT) sover.net... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134361763.541318.44450 (AT) g14g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134360304.677966.22640 (AT) g47g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134337907.952295.318900 (AT) g44g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... When you're not on Death Row, the odds of having to own up to personal reaponsibility to the extent that Tookie has to are very remote. You mean state-sanctioned extermination? If that's what you want ot call it. I call it reasonable punishment. The only problem I can see with the system is that it takes too long for justice to be meted out. Last time a Western country took that attitude was around what... 1930s? Oh yeah then there's Kosovo. Kosovo, an East Bloc country is western? Good point. With the EEU and all... so yeah, the last time a Western country thought that state-sanctioned extermination of its citizens was a Good Thing was around the 1930s-1940s. So? If they all jumped off a cliff, would you follow them? What fucking difference does it make what they do? Our law is what we need to uphold or change, not theirs. We have 650 prisoners on Death Row in California alone, and Tookie will be the 12th to be executed since 1976 when the DP was reinstated in this state. That's close to 30 years, or less than one every three years, to execute 12 inmates. The average time they spend on Death Row exceeds the life span of their victims by nearly double the age of the victim when they were killed. If we killed one Death Row inmate every week until they were all gone, and no new inmates were added to the system, it would take 12.5 years to empty all of the cells. I do not advocate doing that, but it brings the picture into perspective. Our justice system is far too lenient, and would-be criminals have no fear of being caught and convicted because for many of them, they will have it better inside than on the streets. And, we do nothing to punish beyond putting them behind bars. Would torture work for you? It depends. I don't want to be tortured. But, if I killed 4 people in an evening, I expect the punishment to be death. I'd also expect the punishment to be delivered relatively quickly, not in 25+ years. I don't support pulling out finger nails of military prisoners. But taking their clothes and making them uncomfortable with women present isn't alarming to me. torture is many different things. For a smoker torture is keeping him from smoking. For a boozer keeping whiskey away from him would be torture. For a terrorist, keeping them from doing what they like to do best would be torture. I have no problem with that. |
a big problem. So, it makes perfect sense to me that a viable strategy would
be to take their clothes away, and put them with women. Then take pictures
to show to OTHER prisoners -- ahem, I mean detainees -- to get them to talk.
The pictures tell them, talk or we'll take your clothes away and put you
with women too.
Of course, we could strap a load of TNT around their waist and set it off.
#22
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"FanJet" <FanJet27 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:439d8e6f$0$8183$6d3edbfc (AT) news (DOT) sover.net... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134361763.541318.44450 (AT) g14g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134360304.677966.22640 (AT) g47g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134337907.952295.318900 (AT) g44g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... When you're not on Death Row, the odds of having to own up to personal reaponsibility to the extent that Tookie has to are very remote. You mean state-sanctioned extermination? If that's what you want ot call it. I call it reasonable punishment. The only problem I can see with the system is that it takes too long for justice to be meted out. Last time a Western country took that attitude was around what... 1930s? Oh yeah then there's Kosovo. Kosovo, an East Bloc country is western? Good point. With the EEU and all... so yeah, the last time a Western country thought that state-sanctioned extermination of its citizens was a Good Thing was around the 1930s-1940s. So? If they all jumped off a cliff, would you follow them? What fucking difference does it make what they do? Our law is what we need to uphold or change, not theirs. We have 650 prisoners on Death Row in California alone, and Tookie will be the 12th to be executed since 1976 when the DP was reinstated in this state. That's close to 30 years, or less than one every three years, to execute 12 inmates. The average time they spend on Death Row exceeds the life span of their victims by nearly double the age of the victim when they were killed. If we killed one Death Row inmate every week until they were all gone, and no new inmates were added to the system, it would take 12.5 years to empty all of the cells. I do not advocate doing that, but it brings the picture into perspective. Our justice system is far too lenient, and would-be criminals have no fear of being caught and convicted because for many of them, they will have it better inside than on the streets. And, we do nothing to punish beyond putting them behind bars. Would torture work for you? It depends. I don't want to be tortured. But, if I killed 4 people in an evening, I expect the punishment to be death. I'd also expect the punishment to be delivered relatively quickly, not in 25+ years. |
crime, capital punishment is a wildly expensive way to provide a tiny few
with revenge and an somewhat equal few with entertainment. I figure these
few ought to shoulder the financial burden. No too much to ask, is it?
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I don't support pulling out finger nails of military prisoners. But taking their clothes and making them uncomfortable with women present isn't alarming to me. |
a way that what was torture, isn't anymore. No doubt, the new one will allow
what you'd like but keep in mind that BS like this is completely transparent
to most folks.
#23
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Jeff Strickland wrote: "FanJet" <FanJet27 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:439d8e6f$0$8183$6d3edbfc (AT) news (DOT) sover.net... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134361763.541318.44450 (AT) g14g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134360304.677966.22640 (AT) g47g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134337907.952295.318900 (AT) g44g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... When you're not on Death Row, the odds of having to own up to personal reaponsibility to the extent that Tookie has to are very remote. You mean state-sanctioned extermination? If that's what you want ot call it. I call it reasonable punishment. The only problem I can see with the system is that it takes too long for justice to be meted out. Last time a Western country took that attitude was around what... 1930s? Oh yeah then there's Kosovo. Kosovo, an East Bloc country is western? Good point. With the EEU and all... so yeah, the last time a Western country thought that state-sanctioned extermination of its citizens was a Good Thing was around the 1930s-1940s. So? If they all jumped off a cliff, would you follow them? What fucking difference does it make what they do? Our law is what we need to uphold or change, not theirs. We have 650 prisoners on Death Row in California alone, and Tookie will be the 12th to be executed since 1976 when the DP was reinstated in this state. That's close to 30 years, or less than one every three years, to execute 12 inmates. The average time they spend on Death Row exceeds the life span of their victims by nearly double the age of the victim when they were killed. If we killed one Death Row inmate every week until they were all gone, and no new inmates were added to the system, it would take 12.5 years to empty all of the cells. I do not advocate doing that, but it brings the picture into perspective. Our justice system is far too lenient, and would-be criminals have no fear of being caught and convicted because for many of them, they will have it better inside than on the streets. And, we do nothing to punish beyond putting them behind bars. Would torture work for you? It depends. I don't want to be tortured. But, if I killed 4 people in an evening, I expect the punishment to be death. I'd also expect the punishment to be delivered relatively quickly, not in 25+ years. I guess. Though completely ineffective at preventing or even moderating crime, capital punishment is a wildly expensive way to provide a tiny few with revenge and an somewhat equal few with entertainment. I figure these few ought to shoulder the financial burden. No too much to ask, is it? |
If the Crips inductees looked at what happens to them, perhaps they would
not become Crips and travel the same road to ruin. We don't really know for
sure, because it takes 30 years to execute an inmate. If it took 5 years,
perhaps the effect upon the future inductees to a life of crime would be
different.
So many convicts have done death offenses and get back on the street to
commit them again ...
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I don't support pulling out finger nails of military prisoners. But taking their clothes and making them uncomfortable with women present isn't alarming to me. I hear the code of conduct manual is being re-written and 'adjusted' in such a way that what was torture, isn't anymore. No doubt, the new one will allow what you'd like but keep in mind that BS like this is completely transparent to most folks. |
those that we "torture" would be willing to strap explosives to themselves
and blow up a pizza parlor filled with innocent men women and children.
Their mission is death, torture isn't going to hurt them.
Abu Ghraib was about torture, the torture was essentially nothing more than
humiliation by taking their clothes away in the presence of women. Big deal.
Frankly, I think the women have more to bitch about, but they don't seem to
care so that brings us back to, "big deal."
#24
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It's 100% effective in making sure the same crook <doesn't> commit a crime again. If the Crips inductees looked at what happens to them <convicted gang killers>, perhaps they would not become Crips and travel the same road to ruin. We don't really know for sure, because it takes 30 years to execute an inmate. If it took 5 years, perhaps the effect upon the future inductees to a life of crime would be different. So many convicts have done death offenses and get back on the street to commit them again ... I don't support pulling out finger nails of military prisoners. But taking their clothes and making them uncomfortable with women present isn't alarming to me. I hear the code of conduct manual is being re-written and 'adjusted' in such a way that what was torture, isn't anymore. No doubt, the new one will allow what you'd like but keep in mind that BS like this is completely transparent to most folks. I don't know what is torture, and what isn't. What I do know is that many of those that we "torture" would be willing to strap explosives to themselves and blow up a pizza parlor filled with innocent men women and children. Their mission is death, torture isn't going to hurt them. Abu Ghraib was about torture, the torture was essentially nothing more than humiliation by taking their clothes away in the presence of women. Big deal. Frankly, I think the women have more to bitch about, but they don't seem to care so that brings us back to, "big deal." |
#25
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"FanJet" <FanJet27 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:43a24d48$0$8837$4d3efbfe (AT) news (DOT) sover.net... Jeff Strickland wrote: "FanJet" <FanJet27 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:439d8e6f$0$8183$6d3edbfc (AT) news (DOT) sover.net... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134361763.541318.44450 (AT) g14g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134360304.677966.22640 (AT) g47g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134337907.952295.318900 (AT) g44g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... When you're not on Death Row, the odds of having to own up to personal reaponsibility to the extent that Tookie has to are very remote. You mean state-sanctioned extermination? If that's what you want ot call it. I call it reasonable punishment. The only problem I can see with the system is that it takes too long for justice to be meted out. Last time a Western country took that attitude was around what... 1930s? Oh yeah then there's Kosovo. Kosovo, an East Bloc country is western? Good point. With the EEU and all... so yeah, the last time a Western country thought that state-sanctioned extermination of its citizens was a Good Thing was around the 1930s-1940s. So? If they all jumped off a cliff, would you follow them? What fucking difference does it make what they do? Our law is what we need to uphold or change, not theirs. We have 650 prisoners on Death Row in California alone, and Tookie will be the 12th to be executed since 1976 when the DP was reinstated in this state. That's close to 30 years, or less than one every three years, to execute 12 inmates. The average time they spend on Death Row exceeds the life span of their victims by nearly double the age of the victim when they were killed. If we killed one Death Row inmate every week until they were all gone, and no new inmates were added to the system, it would take 12.5 years to empty all of the cells. I do not advocate doing that, but it brings the picture into perspective. Our justice system is far too lenient, and would-be criminals have no fear of being caught and convicted because for many of them, they will have it better inside than on the streets. And, we do nothing to punish beyond putting them behind bars. Would torture work for you? It depends. I don't want to be tortured. But, if I killed 4 people in an evening, I expect the punishment to be death. I'd also expect the punishment to be delivered relatively quickly, not in 25+ years. I guess. Though completely ineffective at preventing or even moderating crime, capital punishment is a wildly expensive way to provide a tiny few with revenge and an somewhat equal few with entertainment. I figure these few ought to shoulder the financial burden. No too much to ask, is it? It's 100% effective in making sure the same crook commit a crime again. If the Crips inductees looked at what happens to them, perhaps they would not become Crips and travel the same road to ruin. We don't really know for sure, because it takes 30 years to execute an inmate. If it took 5 years, perhaps the effect upon the future inductees to a life of crime would be different. So many convicts have done death offenses and get back on the street to commit them again ... |
answer to violence isn't more violence.
#26
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Jeff Strickland wrote: "FanJet" <FanJet27 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:43a24d48$0$8837$4d3efbfe (AT) news (DOT) sover.net... Jeff Strickland wrote: "FanJet" <FanJet27 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:439d8e6f$0$8183$6d3edbfc (AT) news (DOT) sover.net... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134361763.541318.44450 (AT) g14g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134360304.677966.22640 (AT) g47g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Learning Richard" <learningrichard (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1134337907.952295.318900 (AT) g44g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... When you're not on Death Row, the odds of having to own up to personal reaponsibility to the extent that Tookie has to are very remote. You mean state-sanctioned extermination? If that's what you want ot call it. I call it reasonable punishment. The only problem I can see with the system is that it takes too long for justice to be meted out. Last time a Western country took that attitude was around what... 1930s? Oh yeah then there's Kosovo. Kosovo, an East Bloc country is western? Good point. With the EEU and all... so yeah, the last time a Western country thought that state-sanctioned extermination of its citizens was a Good Thing was around the 1930s-1940s. So? If they all jumped off a cliff, would you follow them? What fucking difference does it make what they do? Our law is what we need to uphold or change, not theirs. We have 650 prisoners on Death Row in California alone, and Tookie will be the 12th to be executed since 1976 when the DP was reinstated in this state. That's close to 30 years, or less than one every three years, to execute 12 inmates. The average time they spend on Death Row exceeds the life span of their victims by nearly double the age of the victim when they were killed. If we killed one Death Row inmate every week until they were all gone, and no new inmates were added to the system, it would take 12.5 years to empty all of the cells. I do not advocate doing that, but it brings the picture into perspective. Our justice system is far too lenient, and would-be criminals have no fear of being caught and convicted because for many of them, they will have it better inside than on the streets. And, we do nothing to punish beyond putting them behind bars. Would torture work for you? It depends. I don't want to be tortured. But, if I killed 4 people in an evening, I expect the punishment to be death. I'd also expect the punishment to be delivered relatively quickly, not in 25+ years. I guess. Though completely ineffective at preventing or even moderating crime, capital punishment is a wildly expensive way to provide a tiny few with revenge and an somewhat equal few with entertainment. I figure these few ought to shoulder the financial burden. No too much to ask, is it? It's 100% effective in making sure the same crook commit a crime again. If the Crips inductees looked at what happens to them, perhaps they would not become Crips and travel the same road to ruin. We don't really know for sure, because it takes 30 years to execute an inmate. If it took 5 years, perhaps the effect upon the future inductees to a life of crime would be different. So many convicts have done death offenses and get back on the street to commit them again ... Seriously, Jeff, it doesn't involve advanced thinking to conclude that the answer to violence isn't more violence. |
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#27
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If it took 5 years, perhaps the effect upon the future inductees to a life of crime would be different. So many convicts have done death offenses and get back on the street to commit them again ... Seriously, Jeff, it doesn't involve advanced thinking to conclude that the answer to violence isn't more violence. |
Williams to answer -his- violence was certainly effective enough
to teach -him- (and, of more value, his spectators) that violence
isn't tolerated here.
I agree with Jeff though, it would have had a much better
deterrent factor if they hadn't waited so long...
--
-Gord.
(use gordon in email)
#28
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Seriously, Jeff, it doesn't involve advanced thinking to conclude that the answer to violence isn't more violence. |
back with a shotgun for no apparent reason is violence.
I completely accept that the DP is applied in unsuitable instances on
occasion, and that needs to be fixed. But, I also accept that the sentencing
people to death is necessary and appropriate. Fixing the DP and scrapping it
are completely separate issues. Frankly, I think the DP needs to be applied
to almost every Third Strike defendant. A guy that has been through prison
twice before should be very sure that he isn't convicted of stealing a slice
of pizza as his third strike because any third strike is evidence that the
guy is a complete failure at life. We don't need failures-at-life among us.
#29
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On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 16:56:42 GMT, Gord Beaman <gord (AT) islandtelecom (DOT) com wrote: "FanJet" <FanJet27 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: snip If it took 5 years, perhaps the effect upon the future inductees to a life of crime would be different. So many convicts have done death offenses and get back on the street to commit them again ... Seriously, Jeff, it doesn't involve advanced thinking to conclude that the answer to violence isn't more violence. Oh, I dunno 'bout that...seems to me that the violence visited on Williams to answer -his- violence was certainly effective enough to teach -him- (and, of more value, his spectators) that violence isn't tolerated here. I agree with Jeff though, it would have had a much better deterrent factor if they hadn't waited so long... Break out Clint Eastwood in 'Sudden Impact'.... Now that is sudden justice....very satisfying... |
implement the Death Penalty, and having Clint be the judge, jury, and
executioner. ;-)
#30
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"FanJet" <FanJet27 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:43a39a13$0$8822$4d3efbfe (AT) news (DOT) sover.net... Seriously, Jeff, it doesn't involve advanced thinking to conclude that the answer to violence isn't more violence. The execution of the Death Penalty isn't violence. |
SNIP
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