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  #1  
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edspyhill01
 
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Default {OT:} Put the patient first to end the healthcare malaise - 08-21-2009 , 10:11 AM






Put the patient first to end the healthcare malaise
By Stefan Stern

Published: August 18 2009 03:00 | Last updated: August 18 2009 03:00

All this angry shouting about healthcare reform must be really bad for
people's blood pressure. But it is no joking matter. "Health is
wealth", as they say. Nothing could be more serious.

In the heat of the debate taking place in the US, little light is
being shed on what really matters: outcomes. But while the funding of
healthcare is not a matter for this column, the management of it is.
And it turns out that the task of introducing better healthcare for
all is fundamentally a management challenge.

The Brits know this better than anybody. The UK's National Health
Service was founded, in the face of bitter opposition, more than 60
years ago. It has been a vast, living experiment, and a monument to
managerialism, good and bad.

Readers in the US may have heard some bizarre tales about the NHS in
the past few days. I have not been able to keep up with all of them.
But as a clarification I should point out that on the one hand, yes,
state healthcare in the UK is effectively rationed as the public purse
is not infinitely large. Politicians do not like admitting this,
because it is unpopular. But it is true.

<edit>

Complete article here:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d671882c-8b8d-11de-9f50-00144feabdc0.html

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  #2  
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JoeSpareBedroom
 
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Default Re: {OT:} Put the patient first to end the healthcare malaise - 08-21-2009 , 08:50 PM






Show me data indicating that tort reform is a more important factor in the
cost of health care, compared with other major costs. I can't
find anything which uses real numbers to back up that idea. All I can find
is anecdotes and other bullshit, including proclamations from a convicted
felon who lives with his mother.

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  #3  
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Jeff Strickland
 
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Default Re: {OT:} Put the patient first to end the healthcare malaise - 08-21-2009 , 09:02 PM



"JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash (AT) frontiernet (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:
Show me data indicating that tort reform is a more important factor in the
cost of health care, compared with other major costs. I can't
find anything which uses real numbers to back up that idea. All I can find
is anecdotes and other bullshit, including proclamations from a convicted
felon who lives with his mother.



What are you, a lobbyist for the lawyer association?

There has been a need for tort reform for as long as I can remember.

The problem is that lawsuits rasie the cost of malpractice insurance, and
without tort reform there can be no reduction in malpractice insurance
costs, and those costs simply flow through to the examination room, rasising
the cost of medicine. It only takes one unreasonable lawsuit to raise the
cost of malpractice insurance.

The new MRI machine is expensive but it gives doctors needed information
that can save your life. Malpractice insurance is also expensive, but it
does not give the doctors information that can save your life. One MRI can
be used by 100 doctors, but each of those doctors needs malpractice
insurance. So, the cost of the MRI is spread far and wide, the cost of
malpractice id borne by all and passed on to you and I.

You are an idiot if you think that health care problems can be resolved
without a reduction in malpractice, which requires a change to the tort
laws. Well, you're an idiot anyhow, but that's another story.

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  #4  
Old   
Hachiroku ハチロク
 
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Default Re: {OT:} Put the patient first to end the healthcare malaise - 08-22-2009 , 10:05 AM



On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:49:12 -0700, edspyhill01 wrote:

Quote:
Which party will give up the seniority system of committee memberships
and chairs without the other doing the same. It would actually be
stupid for any group of voters to enforce term limits at the ballot
box. Then Senators and Congressmen from small states would control
the whole country.
And the problem is...?

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  #5  
Old   
JoeSpareBedroom
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: {OT:} Put the patient first to end the healthcare malaise - 08-22-2009 , 11:41 AM



"Scott in Florida" <MoveOn (AT) outa (DOT) here> wrote

Quote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:50:21 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"
newstrash (AT) frontiernet (DOT) net> wrote:

Show me data indicating that tort reform is a more important factor in the
cost of health care, compared with other major costs. I can't
find anything which uses real numbers to back up that idea. All I can find
is anecdotes and other bullshit, including proclamations from a convicted
felon who lives with his mother.


The first place to look is the cost of insurance doctors pay....

--

Scott in Florida

Your message contained no numbers.

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  #6  
Old   
Jeff Strickland
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: {OT:} Put the patient first to end the healthcare malaise - 08-22-2009 , 05:30 PM



"JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash (AT) frontiernet (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:h6p3t2$fp1$1 (AT) news (DOT) eternal-september.org...

"JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash (AT) frontiernet (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:JnSjm.179413$vp.52424 (AT) newsfe12 (DOT) iad...
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:h6njjs$m6k$1 (AT) news (DOT) eternal-september.org...

"JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash (AT) frontiernet (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:c9Ijm.112963$rg4.69690 (AT) newsfe02 (DOT) iad...
Show me data indicating that tort reform is a more important factor in
the cost of health care, compared with other major costs. I can't
find anything which uses real numbers to back up that idea. All I can
find is anecdotes and other bullshit, including proclamations from a
convicted felon who lives with his mother.




What are you, a lobbyist for the lawyer association?

There has been a need for tort reform for as long as I can remember.

The problem is that lawsuits rasie the cost of malpractice insurance,
and without tort reform there can be no reduction in malpractice
insurance costs, and those costs simply flow through to the examination
room, rasising the cost of medicine. It only takes one unreasonable
lawsuit to raise the cost of malpractice insurance.

The new MRI machine is expensive but it gives doctors needed
information that can save your life. Malpractice insurance is also
expensive, but it does not give the doctors information that can save
your life. One MRI can be used by 100 doctors, but each of those
doctors needs malpractice insurance. So, the cost of the MRI is spread
far and wide, the cost of malpractice id borne by all and passed on to
you and I.

You are an idiot if you think that health care problems can be resolved
without a reduction in malpractice, which requires a change to the tort
laws. Well, you're an idiot anyhow, but that's another story.


Was it you who tried this last week or the week before?

No, it was not me.


The word
"expensive" is meaningless

No, it is not meaningless. It is relative, but not meaningless.



unless you can come up with real numbers for the
cost of malpractice insurance, along with real numbers for OTHER major
costs which affect health care. Example: It costs $7000 to $9000 ***PER
DAY*** to keep a corpse alive because he or she left absolutely no end
of life instructions for their doctor and family. That is waste if the
patient has zero hope of recovery.


That is an example of costly service, not an example of malpractice.
Indeed, the person is kept alive to AVERT malpractice. You've just made
my point. Thank you.



I never said it was an example of malpractice. You imagined that.


It's an example of costs going up because of malpractice.

You can't follow along with your own arguments, no wonder you are wrong so
much.

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  #7  
Old   
JoeSpareBedroom
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: {OT:} Put the patient first to end the healthcare malaise - 08-22-2009 , 06:26 PM



"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash (AT) frontiernet (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:L1Vjm.145776$Qg6.14926 (AT) newsfe14 (DOT) iad...
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:h6p3t2$fp1$1 (AT) news (DOT) eternal-september.org...

"JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash (AT) frontiernet (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:JnSjm.179413$vp.52424 (AT) newsfe12 (DOT) iad...
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:h6njjs$m6k$1 (AT) news (DOT) eternal-september.org...

"JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash (AT) frontiernet (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:c9Ijm.112963$rg4.69690 (AT) newsfe02 (DOT) iad...
Show me data indicating that tort reform is a more important factor
in the cost of health care, compared with other major costs. I can't
find anything which uses real numbers to back up that idea. All I can
find is anecdotes and other bullshit, including proclamations from a
convicted felon who lives with his mother.




What are you, a lobbyist for the lawyer association?

There has been a need for tort reform for as long as I can remember.

The problem is that lawsuits rasie the cost of malpractice insurance,
and without tort reform there can be no reduction in malpractice
insurance costs, and those costs simply flow through to the
examination room, rasising the cost of medicine. It only takes one
unreasonable lawsuit to raise the cost of malpractice insurance.

The new MRI machine is expensive but it gives doctors needed
information that can save your life. Malpractice insurance is also
expensive, but it does not give the doctors information that can save
your life. One MRI can be used by 100 doctors, but each of those
doctors needs malpractice insurance. So, the cost of the MRI is spread
far and wide, the cost of malpractice id borne by all and passed on to
you and I.

You are an idiot if you think that health care problems can be
resolved without a reduction in malpractice, which requires a change
to the tort laws. Well, you're an idiot anyhow, but that's another
story.


Was it you who tried this last week or the week before?

No, it was not me.


The word
"expensive" is meaningless

No, it is not meaningless. It is relative, but not meaningless.



unless you can come up with real numbers for the
cost of malpractice insurance, along with real numbers for OTHER major
costs which affect health care. Example: It costs $7000 to $9000 ***PER
DAY*** to keep a corpse alive because he or she left absolutely no end
of life instructions for their doctor and family. That is waste if the
patient has zero hope of recovery.


That is an example of costly service, not an example of malpractice.
Indeed, the person is kept alive to AVERT malpractice. You've just made
my point. Thank you.



I never said it was an example of malpractice. You imagined that.



It's an example of costs going up because of malpractice.

You can't follow along with your own arguments, no wonder you are wrong so
much.

Without an itemized breakdown of the 7K to 9K a day, you cannot use these
costs as an example of malpractice expenses, although in your next message,
you will disagree.

Explain your experience in the profession of medical billing and perhaps
I'll believe you. Until you do that, every word you type on this subject is
a guess.

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