Although I am not a fan of my Avalon, it is far superior than any GM product
I've driven for years. A few years ago a quality guru retired from Toyota
and picked up by GM. His major recommendation was that the components in
the cars should be engineered to last 100k miles instead of the warranty
period as GM was currently practicing. I believe that explains 90% of the
problem with GM car reliability right there.

I don't generally respond to such ridiculous posts but I must ask, do you
dream this stuff or do you just make it up? There are literally millions of
GM vehicles on the road, long out of warranty, with hundreds of thousands of
miles on the clock still running fine. When I still owned my fleet service
business we serviced thousands of police cars, with over 200 thousands
miles on the clock, for years after GM stopped building police cars. Grow
up.

mike




"Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE (AT) mindspring (DOT) com> wrote

Medicare will. Toyota doesn't offer their retirees medical coverage,
afaik.

Most companies don't. Why should they? GM offered gold plated
coverage b/c their union insisted on it.

Many companies don't offer pensions anymore either, although they do
match 401K contributions in some manner.

st-bum wrote:

Health care costs are breaking GM's back with their generous benifits
and add over 1500 dollars to the average price of a car. It is all
reaching critical mass now together with labor costs. Between health
care costs and labor costs, it accounts for over 70% of the cost of
building a vehicle at GM. It cannot go on forever.

"Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE (AT) mindspring (DOT) com> wrote

Art,

You don't really believe this do you? GM does not design cars to just last
the warranty period. I don't know exactly what periods GM uses when
designing components, but I do know they routinely run prototypes past
250,000 miles during development. I suspect, but do not know, GM uses longer
design life periods than the Japanese manufacturers. Toyotas in particular
seem to disintegrate after about 10 years.

Ed

Look at 10 year old Toyotas vs. GM 10 year olds (if you can find any).
Toyotas are almost as good as new, and it's reflected in their market
value (and no it's not just complete delusion on the part of buyers).

GM's cars after 10 years are belching blue/black smoke and sound like a
bucket of bolts. They are junk. YOu have to pay someone to tow it off
your lot.

"C. E. White" <cewhite (AT) mindspring (DOT) com> wrote

st-bum wrote:
bulllllllllllllllllll

shit

bubba

GM makes damn good cars. I consider most of this kind of silly flame
nuttin but a bunch of celebrity roasting. I almost NEVER see 60s
vintage Toyotas on the road...

GM is not a write off. The executives are just taking a good arse
whuppin, because the UAW won't back down on exporting jobs to Mexico.
Don't confuse Republican blues with New Orleans blues.

[quote
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...id=mktw&dist=]
Delphi Corp., which has been trying to stave off a strike by its
workers, dropped a deadline for reaching a new labor contract with the
United Auto Workers while GM agreed to forgo price cuts from the
bankrupt parts maker.
[/quote]


Looks like Delphi brass is gonna back down... thats what you call
American Values.

Quite frankly, if the only thing wrong with a GM car was that it cost $1500
more than the equivalent import I would still buy it. Unfortunately they
suck.


"TheSnoMan" <admin (AT) snoman (DOT) com> wrote

Art wrote:
A quick google of 1963 impala

http://www.dealsonwheels.com/search/...-200508-000055

http://www.dealsonwheels.com/databas...00055_3big.jpg

http://www.chevytrader.com/chevy-for-sale-164.html

You will almost never see aToyota from 1963 on the road bubba