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#91
 
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Re: Why Toyota is kicking GM's ass -
05-19-2007
, 10:39 PM
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"80 Knight" <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in message The Japanese attacking us apparently doesn't mean much to some either. Are you talking about the successful economics of modern day Japan, or their day of infamy in 1941? We gave them a heck of a defeat back then. It wasnt brag, just fact. If we want to win economically, it will again have to be no brag, just fact. |
going up, while Toyota is recalling more and more cars every day, yet at the
moment, they are #1. If GM car's lasted 500,00 miles, never failed, and were
priced nicely, would we win then? Or, would people still think Toyota's are
'better'? To some people, just having the word "Toyota" on the front grill
means the car is wonderful, regardless of how often it breaks down.
#92
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n5hsr wrote: I'd really like to know what sort of alterned state you live in where Toyotas fall apart and GM's don't rust. Do they use special salt? The salt they use here eats through metal pretty good and I've seen a lot of older GM's with fender rot. We also had to replace the floor in our Corvair. Twice.. And our turn signal quit working because unlike Toyotas, most GM products in those days used body ground return, so if the body rotted, the turn signals grounded through it malfunctioned. I remember having to roll down the window and stick my arm out in the dead of winter since we hadn't had a chance to repair the turn signal that winter yet. So I don't know what reality you're living in, but around here there are a lot of Toyotas from the 1990's still being used as daily drivers and in good shape. Charles of Schaumburg Why do you keep bring up the Corvair, A car out of production almost 40 YEARS!!! I have a friend whose Toyota (Tercel) rusted so badly it didn't last 7 years. Of course it was a 1983 model and the newer models are much better. In defense of Detroit my mom's 1987 Chrysler 5th Avenue, 20 years old with 135,000 miles still has the original exhaust. So based the my observations just listed Japanese is bad and Detroit is good. Your mileage may vary!!!!!! Don't take this all too seriously folks. Truth is it is hard to find a truly bad car of any make. |
driving it to the shop once a month trying to get stuff fixed. Brakes that
wore out at 30,000 miles. Rust on, of all things, door hinges and gas
tanks. By 50,000 miles I was quite tired of it. A selection of engines
that quite frankly stunk. Hoses that kept falling off. Bumping the back of
my head into the rear window every time I hit a good bump.
I would just as soon shave my legs with a dull razor blade and get my ears
pierced as buy another GM product. My run with them has been all bad.
OTOH, my run with Toyota has been:
1972 Carina 154,037 miles (sold)
1977 Corolla 207,000 miles (scrapped)
1979 KE30 (1501) Corolla 106,000 miles (sold)
1980 Corolla liftback (green) 75,000 miles (accident)
1980 Corolla liftback (red) 202,000 miles (sold)
1981 Corolla liftback 105,000 miles (sold)
1982 Corolla coupe 213,000 miles (sold)
1993 Corolla DX 238,000 miles (sold)
1994 Corolla LX 150,000 (Still running)
1995 Corolla LX 140,000 (Still running)
1995 Coroall plain 104,000 (just bought)
1995 Previa 156,000 miles (still running)
Charles of Schaumburg
#93
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On Sat, 19 May 2007 15:18:04 -0400, BoobooBear wrote: "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno (AT) AE86 (DOT) gts> wrote in message news:BIs3i.3465$Qz.3136 (AT) trndny09 (DOT) .. On Fri, 18 May 2007 20:49:40 -0400, BoobooBear wrote: It got 38 MPG on the highway, until I changed the tires from Bias-Ply to Michelin Radials. Then it got 38 MPG IN TOWN. The Nova I looked at was $3595, a V8 that got 18 MPG overall. And didn't have a little green maplight. Lets face it a 74-2007 corolla has never been nothing to look at. So you are correct you will never see it in a show. But they are fun to drive, economical and easy to fix if something does break. 4 wheels, a box and an engine, what is there to break? Perhaps that's the beauty of it. |
Corollas.
I drive from point A to Point B every day. Sometimes to Point C. I need a
car that will not need to be in the shop to fix some piddly little thing
once a month. I'd have to be part of that Chain, Chain, Chain (Chain of
Fools.)
Charles of Schaumburg
#94
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On Sat, 19 May 2007 11:08:30 -0500, n5hsr wrote: "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno (AT) AE86 (DOT) gts> wrote in message news:KwE3i.458$hw.25 (AT) trndny08 (DOT) .. On Sat, 19 May 2007 05:20:58 -0400, 80 Knight wrote: "Wickeddoll" <wickeddoll1958DieSpammersDie (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:f2l5jp.cc.1 (AT) news (DOT) evilcabal.org... "BoobooBear" <Boo (AT) yahaa (DOT) com> wrote in message news:464e4e1c$0$1258$822641b3 (AT) news (DOT) adtechcomputers.com... | | "Mike Marlow" <mmarlow (AT) alltel (DOT) net> wrote in message | news:554b$464d9ac6$471fb881$26172 (AT) ALLTEL (DOT) NET... | | > <HLS (AT) nospam (DOT) nix> wrote in message | > news:gZ53i.21859$JZ3.12791 (AT) newssvr13 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... | | >> "George Orwell" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1] | >> wrote in message | >> > Toyota enjoys much lower labor costs in the United States and benefits | >> > from an undervalued yen for cars made in Japan. In the United States, | >> > this comes to about $2,500 per vehicle. | | | | >> Blah, blah, blah... | >> Toyota has the perception of being higher quality, and we pay | >> higher | > prices | >> for it. | >> They service what they sell, build a hell of a good car,and stand behind | > it. | | >> GM lost the war. | | > GM is losing the battle, but the war will never be over. Like everything | > else in life, this battleground will have continued ups and downs forever. | | > -- | | > -Mike- | > mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net | | | GM is currently planning some B-17 sorties to bomb the Toyota | facturies in | japan this summer. | | | Bombing the Japanese didn't stop us from buying their cars. The Japanese attacking us apparently doesn't mean much to some either. Sure it does. But they paid quite a penalty, didn't they? And now they are an ally. We also bought Hitler's little car in the 1960's. Now people have been trying to tell me VW is an American car! I'd like to know what drugs they're taking, so I can STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THEM. Charles of Schaumburg VW skedaddled from the US in the 80's. The rabbit was built in PA, IIRC, but then they closed the factory. |
didn't necessarily say they were bright people.
Charles of Schaumburg
#95
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"Wickeddoll" <wickeddoll1958DieSpammersDie (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:f2mrmh.370.1 (AT) news (DOT) evilcabal.org... "Hachiroku ????" , 80 Knight wrote: | | > "Wickeddoll" .. | | >> "BoobooBear"... | >> | | >> | "Mike Marlow"... | >> | | >> | > <HLS (AT) nospam (DOT) nix>... | >> | | >> | >> "George Orwell" | >> | >> in message | >> | >> > Toyota enjoys much lower labor costs in the United States and | >> benefits | >> | >> > from an undervalued yen for cars made in Japan. In the United | >> States, | >> | >> > this comes to about $2,500 per vehicle. | >> | | >> | | >> | | >> | >> Blah, blah, blah... | >> | >> Toyota has the perception of being higher quality, and we pay | >> | >> higher | >> | > prices | >> | >> for it. | >> | >> They service what they sell, build a hell of a good car,and stand | >> behind | >> | > it. | >> | | >> | >> GM lost the war. | >> | | >> | > GM is losing the battle, but the war will never be over. Like | >> everything | >> | > else in life, this battleground will have continued ups and downs | >> forever. | >> | | >> | > -- | >> | | >> | > -Mike- | >> | > mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net | >> | | >> | | >> | GM is currently planning some B-17 sorties to bomb the Toyota | >> | facturies | >> in | >> | japan this summer. | >> | | >> | | >> | | >> Bombing the Japanese didn't stop us from buying their cars. | | > The Japanese attacking us apparently doesn't mean much to some either. If you mean me, 80, you're way off. You may remember, I'm a proud Air Force veteran, and I remember Pearl Harbor very well, thank you. Nice to see you again, BTW. My apologies Natalie. I was not speaking of you, as I have known you too long to think like that. I had read too many post's yesterday (as well as articles on the NET), and my cage got rattled. As you may remember, I live right beside Oshawa, Ontario, where GM's #1 (according to JD Power) plant is. It really pains me to see people posting how they want GM (or any auto manufacture for that matter) to go belly up, as I know for a fact what it would do to my town, and the surrounding ones. Most of my family either works, or has worked for GM in some capacity. If GM were to close up shop here, this place would be a ghost town. Do I have a problem with people thinking Toyota, Honda, ect, is #1? Of course not, but cheering and pleading for GM to go belly up so they can stay #1, or just because someone once had a 1970 Chevy that rusted, is pretty selfish, IMHO. But, as I said, nothing was intended towards you, and you have my apologies if I made it seem like it was. |
Natalie
*snip*
#96
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HLS (AT) nospam (DOT) nix> ... "80 Knight" wrote in message The Japanese attacking us apparently doesn't mean much to some either. Are you talking about the successful economics of modern day Japan, or their day of infamy in 1941? We gave them a heck of a defeat back then. It wasnt brag, just fact. If we want to win economically, it will again have to be no brag, just fact. The question is though, can we win? From what I have read, GM's quality is going up, while Toyota is recalling more and more cars every day, yet at the moment, they are #1. If GM car's lasted 500,00 miles, never failed, and were priced nicely, would we win then? Or, would people still think Toyota's are 'better'? To some people, just having the word "Toyota" on the front grill means the car is wonderful, regardless of how often it breaks down. Nope - I'd love to drive an American car again. I really would like to see |
Natalie
#97
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"80 Knight" <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in message news:qv6dnTe44e8LXNLbnZ2dnUVZ_o-knZ2d (AT) giganews (DOT) com... | "Wickeddoll" <wickeddoll1958DieSpammersDie (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message | news:f2mrmh.370.1 (AT) news (DOT) evilcabal.org... | | > "Hachiroku ????" | > , 80 Knight wrote: | > | | > | > "Wickeddoll" .. | > | | > | >> "BoobooBear"... | > | >> | | > | >> | "Mike Marlow"... | > | >> | | > | >> | > <HLS (AT) nospam (DOT) nix>... | > | >> | | > | >> | >> "George Orwell" | > | >> | >> in message | > | >> | >> > Toyota enjoys much lower labor costs in the United States and | > | >> benefits | > | >> | >> > from an undervalued yen for cars made in Japan. In the United | > | >> States, | > | >> | >> > this comes to about $2,500 per vehicle. | > | >> | | > | >> | | > | >> | | > | >> | >> Blah, blah, blah... | > | >> | >> Toyota has the perception of being higher quality, and we pay | > | >> | >> higher | > | >> | > prices | > | >> | >> for it. | > | >> | >> They service what they sell, build a hell of a good car,and | > stand | > | >> behind | > | >> | > it. | > | >> | | > | >> | >> GM lost the war. | > | >> | | > | >> | > GM is losing the battle, but the war will never be over. Like | > | >> everything | > | >> | > else in life, this battleground will have continued ups and downs | > | >> forever. | > | >> | | > | >> | > -- | > | >> | | > | >> | > -Mike- | > | >> | > mmarlowREMOVE (AT) alltel (DOT) net | > | >> | | > | >> | | > | >> | GM is currently planning some B-17 sorties to bomb the Toyota | > | >> | facturies | > | >> in | > | >> | japan this summer. | > | >> | | > | >> | | > | >> | | > | >> Bombing the Japanese didn't stop us from buying their cars. | > | | > | > The Japanese attacking us apparently doesn't mean much to some either. | | > If you mean me, 80, you're way off. You may remember, I'm a proud Air | > Force | > veteran, and I remember Pearl Harbor very well, thank you. Nice to see | > you | > again, BTW. | | My apologies Natalie. I was not speaking of you, as I have known you too | long to think like that. I had read too many post's yesterday (as well as | articles on the NET), and my cage got rattled. As you may remember, I live | right beside Oshawa, Ontario, where GM's #1 (according to JD Power) plant | is. It really pains me to see people posting how they want GM (or any auto | manufacture for that matter) to go belly up, as I know for a fact what it | would do to my town, and the surrounding ones. Most of my family either | works, or has worked for GM in some capacity. If GM were to close up shop | here, this place would be a ghost town. Do I have a problem with people | thinking Toyota, Honda, ect, is #1? Of course not, but cheering and pleading | for GM to go belly up so they can stay #1, or just because someone once had | a 1970 Chevy that rusted, is pretty selfish, IMHO. But, as I said, nothing | was intended towards you, and you have my apologies if I made it seem like | it was. Okies! How are ya? |
How have you beendoing?
#98
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On Sat, 19 May 2007 23:34:03 -0400, 80 Knight wrote: If you mean me, 80, you're way off. You may remember, I'm a proud Air Force veteran, and I remember Pearl Harbor very well, thank you. Nice to see you again, BTW. My apologies Natalie. I was not speaking of you, as I have known you too long to think like that. I had read too many post's yesterday (as well as articles on the NET), and my cage got rattled. As you may remember, I live right beside Oshawa, Ontario, where GM's #1 (according to JD Power) plant is. It really pains me to see people posting how they want GM (or any auto manufacture for that matter) to go belly up, as I know for a fact what it would do to my town, and the surrounding ones. Most of my family either works, or has worked for GM in some capacity. If GM were to close up shop here, this place would be a ghost town. Do I have a problem with people thinking Toyota, Honda, ect, is #1? Of course not, but cheering and pleading for GM to go belly up so they can stay #1, or just because someone once had a 1970 Chevy that rusted, is pretty selfish, IMHO. But, as I said, nothing was intended towards you, and you have my apologies if I made it seem like it was. Nobody wants to see GM go belly up. |
who want (or at least, say they want) just that.
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WE WANT TO SEE THEM BUILD BETTER CARS!!! Let's put it this way: in 1988 I was looking for a new car for wifey. I was leaning towards Toyota or Honda but was also thinking Ford or Buick. Buick made some nice looking sleds in the late 80's. The steering felt cheap. The switchgear felt cheap. the doorhandles felt cheap. the mirror felt cheap. and remember, I had been driving Toyotas for 14 years at this time! The Fords were better but didn't like anything we could afford. What I could afford was an Escort or (what was that slightly larger thing...?) If I'm going to pay Corolla prices why not get a Corolla? But I went one better and got an Accord for LESS than a Corolla. The steering felt tight. the switchgear felt tight. the mirror felt tight. the doorhandles felt tight. |
them. SE, LE...A 1987 SE (top of the line for it's year) is the car I
learned to drive on. I loved that car. I could predict every move it was
going to make, I knew every sound, and it felt solid. It would take corners
like nothing, and was quite peppy for a (now seemingly small) 2.8L V6. My
uncle actually still has one that he bought off a family member. Very low
mileage, totally mint. He takes it out for weekends and the such.
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If GM focused on what the *CUSTOMERS* want and not what the *SHAREHOLDERS* want, then the shareholders would be all set, because people would be buying their cars! Simple, really. Toyota and Honda learned it a long time ago... |
want, why do they still sell so many vehicles? I will admit, not every GM
produced today is an attractive car, to me. However, neither are any of the
other manufactures either. I drive a 1996 Bonnie SSEi, my sister has a 2003
Grand Am GT (with RamAir, and all that jazz), and we honestly can't find
newer cars we like better. I like my plastic body panels, my 'bubble'
mirrors, and my fog-lights, and my sister loves her RamAir hood. ;-)
#99
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On Sat, 19 May 2007 23:34:03 -0400, 80 Knight wrote: As you may remember, I live right beside Oshawa, Ontario, where GM's #1 (according to JD Power) plant is. Hey, BTW, is Tully's in Oshawa still open? |
is getting so damned big now, it's not even funny. Same with attaching town
Bowmanville. You don't dare go through either town between 3-6pm, unless you
like heavy traffic. The 401 highway isn't a picnic either.
#100
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"80 Knight" ... | <HLS (AT) nospam (DOT) nix> ... | | > "80 Knight" wrote in message | >> The Japanese attacking us apparently doesn't mean much to some either. | | > Are you talking about the successful economics of modern day Japan, or | > their | > day of infamy in 1941? | | > We gave them a heck of a defeat back then. It wasnt brag, just fact. | | > If we want to win economically, it will again have to be no brag, just | > fact. | | The question is though, can we win? From what I have read, GM's quality is | going up, while Toyota is recalling more and more cars every day, yet at the | moment, they are #1. If GM car's lasted 500,00 miles, never failed, and were | priced nicely, would we win then? Or, would people still think Toyota's are | 'better'? To some people, just having the word "Toyota" on the front grill | means the car is wonderful, regardless of how often it breaks down. | Nope - I'd love to drive an American car again. I really would like to see them rebound. |
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