MK3 Golf AEE (1.6) starting issues

#1

My girlfriend's Golf is having a bit of starting trouble. Basically, the
starter will spin the engine fairly well, up to about 400 revs or so, which
if I recall correctly, is about right for a starter. However, the engine
doesn't catch. Give it a welly full of throttle, and it'll fire and then bog
down again at around 600rpm, and stall. What it reminds me of most is
driving an old MK2 Golf with a bunged up ICV / the idle screw turned too far
in.

Keep giving it a bit of throttle (say, 5 or ten seconds held at
1000-1500rpm) and it's fine.

I replaced the breather pipe that feeds from the oil seperator into the
airbox, so it's possible that the throttle body is gunged up, but I can't
see why that would cause cold start issues, but not at any other time.

Other candidates are that the throttle body stepper motor has worked out of
alignment, and finally there's the possibility that there's something wrong
with the charging system / battery / spark, and there's not enough energy to
properly ignite a whiff of air and petrol in a cold engine, or the
alternator is pulling the engine revs down, trying to get some charge into a
near dead battery. The battery is claiming to be fine, with green showing in
the window.

Obviously I'll have a bit more idea tomorrow, when I can take the DMM out
and get some readings for the battery voltage. Any other possibilities?

#2

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:47:23 +0100, Doki <mrdoki (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

My girlfriend's Golf is having a bit of starting trouble. Basically, the
starter will spin the engine fairly well, up to about 400 revs or so,
which if I recall correctly, is about right for a starter. However, the
engine doesn't catch. Give it a welly full of throttle, and it'll fire
and then bog down again at around 600rpm, and stall. What it reminds me
of most is driving an old MK2 Golf with a bunged up ICV / the idle screw
turned too far in.

Keep giving it a bit of throttle (say, 5 or ten seconds held at
1000-1500rpm) and it's fine.

I replaced the breather pipe that feeds from the oil seperator into the
airbox, so it's possible that the throttle body is gunged up, but I
can't see why that would cause cold start issues, but not at any other
time.

Other candidates are that the throttle body stepper motor has worked out
of alignment,

If it's gunged up then it will be difficult to start, but it'll idle
roughly as well.

Quote:

and finally there's the possibility that there's something wrong with
the charging system / battery / spark, and there's not enough energy to
properly ignite a whiff of air and petrol in a cold engine, or the
alternator is pulling the engine revs down, trying to get some charge
into a near dead battery. The battery is claiming to be fine, with green
showing in the window.

Obviously I'll have a bit more idea tomorrow, when I can take the DMM
out and get some readings for the battery voltage. Any other
possibilities?

--
Duncan Wood

#3

"Doki" <mrdoki (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

My girlfriend's Golf is having a bit of starting trouble. Basically, the
starter will spin the engine fairly well, up to about 400 revs or so,
which if I recall correctly, is about right for a starter. However, the
engine doesn't catch. Give it a welly full of throttle, and it'll fire and
then bog down again at around 600rpm, and stall. What it reminds me of
most is driving an old MK2 Golf with a bunged up ICV / the idle screw
turned too far in.

Keep giving it a bit of throttle (say, 5 or ten seconds held at
1000-1500rpm) and it's fine.

I replaced the breather pipe that feeds from the oil seperator into the
airbox, so it's possible that the throttle body is gunged up, but I can't
see why that would cause cold start issues, but not at any other time.

Other candidates are that the throttle body stepper motor has worked out
of alignment, and finally there's the possibility that there's something
wrong with the charging system / battery / spark, and there's not enough
energy to properly ignite a whiff of air and petrol in a cold engine, or
the alternator is pulling the engine revs down, trying to get some charge
into a near dead battery. The battery is claiming to be fine, with green
showing in the window.

Obviously I'll have a bit more idea tomorrow, when I can take the DMM out
and get some readings for the battery voltage. Any other possibilities?

Right. Had the digital multimeter out, and the battery's kicking out a nice
healthy 12.6V before starting, and 14.4V after.

However, the missing warm air feed pipe from the top of the exhaust
manifold, which I yanked off in July before it could disintegrate and chew
up a belt, was staring me in the face. Sure enough, the flap in the intake
pipe was swiched over to warm air... Think that'll be my first port of call.

#4

"Doki" <mrdoki (AT) gmail (DOT) com> schreef in bericht
news:7hd4pvF2qmo1lU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net...

Quote:

My girlfriend's Golf is having a bit of starting trouble. Basically, the
starter will spin the engine fairly well, up to about 400 revs or so,
which if I recall correctly, is about right for a starter. However, the
engine doesn't catch. Give it a welly full of throttle, and it'll fire and
then bog down again at around 600rpm, and stall. What it reminds me of
most is driving an old MK2 Golf with a bunged up ICV / the idle screw
turned too far in.

Keep giving it a bit of throttle (say, 5 or ten seconds held at
1000-1500rpm) and it's fine.

I replaced the breather pipe that feeds from the oil seperator into the
airbox, so it's possible that the throttle body is gunged up, but I can't
see why that would cause cold start issues, but not at any other time.

Other candidates are that the throttle body stepper motor has worked out
of alignment, and finally there's the possibility that there's something
wrong with the charging system / battery / spark, and there's not enough
energy to properly ignite a whiff of air and petrol in a cold engine, or
the alternator is pulling the engine revs down, trying to get some charge
into a near dead battery. The battery is claiming to be fine, with green
showing in the window.

Obviously I'll have a bit more idea tomorrow, when I can take the DMM out
and get some readings for the battery voltage. Any other possibilities?

Check for spark by removing one of the plugs. Also check that the fuel pump
is running while starting, could be a bad fuel pump relay.

SFC

#5

Doki wrote:

Quote:

My girlfriend's Golf is having a bit of starting trouble. Basically, the
starter will spin the engine fairly well, up to about 400 revs or so,
which if I recall correctly, is about right for a starter. However, the
engine doesn't catch. Give it a welly full of throttle, and it'll fire
and then bog down again at around 600rpm, and stall. What it reminds me
of most is driving an old MK2 Golf with a bunged up ICV / the idle screw
turned too far in.

Keep giving it a bit of throttle (say, 5 or ten seconds held at
1000-1500rpm) and it's fine.

I replaced the breather pipe that feeds from the oil seperator into the
airbox, so it's possible that the throttle body is gunged up, but I
can't see why that would cause cold start issues, but not at any other
time.

Other candidates are that the throttle body stepper motor has worked out
of alignment, and finally there's the possibility that there's something
wrong with the charging system / battery / spark, and there's not enough
energy to properly ignite a whiff of air and petrol in a cold engine, or
the alternator is pulling the engine revs down, trying to get some
charge into a near dead battery. The battery is claiming to be fine,
with green showing in the window.

Obviously I'll have a bit more idea tomorrow, when I can take the DMM
out and get some readings for the battery voltage. Any other possibilities?
Have you got VAG-COM? I'd do a scan, and clean, re-align the TB to start

with.

#6

"Chris Bartram" <news (AT) delete-me (DOT) piglet-net.net> wrote

Quote:

Doki wrote:
My girlfriend's Golf is having a bit of starting trouble. Basically, the
starter will spin the engine fairly well, up to about 400 revs or so,
which if I recall correctly, is about right for a starter. However, the
engine doesn't catch. Give it a welly full of throttle, and it'll fire
and then bog down again at around 600rpm, and stall. What it reminds me
of most is driving an old MK2 Golf with a bunged up ICV / the idle screw
turned too far in.

Keep giving it a bit of throttle (say, 5 or ten seconds held at
1000-1500rpm) and it's fine.

I replaced the breather pipe that feeds from the oil seperator into the
airbox, so it's possible that the throttle body is gunged up, but I can't
see why that would cause cold start issues, but not at any other time.

Other candidates are that the throttle body stepper motor has worked out
of alignment, and finally there's the possibility that there's something
wrong with the charging system / battery / spark, and there's not enough
energy to properly ignite a whiff of air and petrol in a cold engine, or
the alternator is pulling the engine revs down, trying to get some charge
into a near dead battery. The battery is claiming to be fine, with green
showing in the window.

Obviously I'll have a bit more idea tomorrow, when I can take the DMM out
and get some readings for the battery voltage. Any other possibilities?

Have you got VAG-COM? I'd do a scan, and clean, re-align the TB to start
with.

I've got a demo version of Vag-com along with a cheap and nasty ebay cable.
Unforunately, that reports error 00282 - Throttle Position Actuator (V60)
36-00, Open circuit. Which fits with the throttle stepper motor appearing to
do nothing at all.

The wiring appears to be perfect, so I'm beginning to suspect the throttle
body. Second hand ones are around for £45, against £95-140 for a new item -
does anyone know if it's a major pain in the neck to swap one of these? If
it is, it's going to a man what knows...

#7

Doki wrote:

Quote:

"Chris Bartram" <news (AT) delete-me (DOT) piglet-net.net> wrote in message
news:h8sunv$ak9$1 (AT) news (DOT) eternal-september.org...
Doki wrote:
My girlfriend's Golf is having a bit of starting trouble. Basically,
the starter will spin the engine fairly well, up to about 400 revs or
so, which if I recall correctly, is about right for a starter.
However, the engine doesn't catch. Give it a welly full of throttle,
and it'll fire and then bog down again at around 600rpm, and stall.
What it reminds me of most is driving an old MK2 Golf with a bunged
up ICV / the idle screw turned too far in.

Keep giving it a bit of throttle (say, 5 or ten seconds held at
1000-1500rpm) and it's fine.

I replaced the breather pipe that feeds from the oil seperator into
the airbox, so it's possible that the throttle body is gunged up, but
I can't see why that would cause cold start issues, but not at any
other time.

Other candidates are that the throttle body stepper motor has worked
out of alignment, and finally there's the possibility that there's
something wrong with the charging system / battery / spark, and
there's not enough energy to properly ignite a whiff of air and
petrol in a cold engine, or the alternator is pulling the engine revs
down, trying to get some charge into a near dead battery. The battery
is claiming to be fine, with green showing in the window.

Obviously I'll have a bit more idea tomorrow, when I can take the DMM
out and get some readings for the battery voltage. Any other
possibilities?

Have you got VAG-COM? I'd do a scan, and clean, re-align the TB to
start with.

I've got a demo version of Vag-com along with a cheap and nasty ebay
cable. Unforunately, that reports error 00282 - Throttle Position
Actuator (V60) 36-00, Open circuit. Which fits with the throttle stepper
motor appearing to do nothing at all.

The wiring appears to be perfect, so I'm beginning to suspect the
throttle body. Second hand ones are around for £45, against £95-140 for
a new item - does anyone know if it's a major pain in the neck to swap
one of these? If it is, it's going to a man what knows...
I've had the TB off our Lupo (1.4 AFK) to clean it, and it was dead

easy- take off the airbox, then 4 bolts and one multi-plug. You'll want
a new rubber seal for it.

#8

"Chris Bartram" <news (AT) delete-me (DOT) piglet-net.net> wrote

Quote:

Doki wrote:

"Chris Bartram" <news (AT) delete-me (DOT) piglet-net.net> wrote in message
news:h8sunv$ak9$1 (AT) news (DOT) eternal-september.org...

The wiring appears to be perfect, so I'm beginning to suspect the
throttle body. Second hand ones are around for £45, against £95-140 for a
new item - does anyone know if it's a major pain in the neck to swap one
of these? If it is, it's going to a man what knows...

I've had the TB off our Lupo (1.4 AFK) to clean it, and it was dead easy-
take off the airbox, then 4 bolts and one multi-plug. You'll want a new
rubber seal for it.

Right then. Sounds like time for a new to me TB and find a man to reset the
stepper. There's no cheap way of doing it without forking out for full vag
com is there?

#9

Doki wrote:

Quote:

"Chris Bartram" <news (AT) delete-me (DOT) piglet-net.net> wrote in message
news:h95sug$msi$1 (AT) news (DOT) eternal-september.org...
Doki wrote:

"Chris Bartram" <news (AT) delete-me (DOT) piglet-net.net> wrote in message
news:h8sunv$ak9$1 (AT) news (DOT) eternal-september.org...

The wiring appears to be perfect, so I'm beginning to suspect the
throttle body. Second hand ones are around for £45, against £95-140
for a new item - does anyone know if it's a major pain in the neck to
swap one of these? If it is, it's going to a man what knows...

I've had the TB off our Lupo (1.4 AFK) to clean it, and it was dead
easy- take off the airbox, then 4 bolts and one multi-plug. You'll
want a new rubber seal for it.

Right then. Sounds like time for a new to me TB and find a man to reset
the stepper. There's no cheap way of doing it without forking out for
full vag com is there?
It's rumoured that leaving the ignition on for a few minutes does it,

but I have my doubts. In fact, I just don't believe it.

Ask on one of the VAG forums (briskoda, seatcupra, audi-sport, uk-mkivs
etc for someone to do it. Where are you?

#10

"Chris Bartram" <news (AT) delete-me (DOT) piglet-net.net> wrote

Quote:

Doki wrote:

"Chris Bartram" <news (AT) delete-me (DOT) piglet-net.net> wrote in message
news:h8sunv$ak9$1 (AT) news (DOT) eternal-september.org...
Doki wrote:
My girlfriend's Golf is having a bit of starting trouble. Basically,
the starter will spin the engine fairly well, up to about 400 revs or
so, which if I recall correctly, is about right for a starter. However,
the engine doesn't catch. Give it a welly full of throttle, and it'll
fire and then bog down again at around 600rpm, and stall. What it
reminds me of most is driving an old MK2 Golf with a bunged up ICV /
the idle screw turned too far in.

Keep giving it a bit of throttle (say, 5 or ten seconds held at
1000-1500rpm) and it's fine.

I replaced the breather pipe that feeds from the oil seperator into the
airbox, so it's possible that the throttle body is gunged up, but I
can't see why that would cause cold start issues, but not at any other
time.

Other candidates are that the throttle body stepper motor has worked
out of alignment, and finally there's the possibility that there's
something wrong with the charging system / battery / spark, and there's
not enough energy to properly ignite a whiff of air and petrol in a
cold engine, or the alternator is pulling the engine revs down, trying
to get some charge into a near dead battery. The battery is claiming to
be fine, with green showing in the window.

Obviously I'll have a bit more idea tomorrow, when I can take the DMM
out and get some readings for the battery voltage. Any other
possibilities?

Have you got VAG-COM? I'd do a scan, and clean, re-align the TB to start
with.

I've got a demo version of Vag-com along with a cheap and nasty ebay
cable. Unforunately, that reports error 00282 - Throttle Position
Actuator (V60) 36-00, Open circuit. Which fits with the throttle stepper
motor appearing to do nothing at all.

The wiring appears to be perfect, so I'm beginning to suspect the
throttle body. Second hand ones are around for £45, against £95-140 for a
new item - does anyone know if it's a major pain in the neck to swap one
of these? If it is, it's going to a man what knows...
I've had the TB off our Lupo (1.4 AFK) to clean it, and it was dead easy-
take off the airbox, then 4 bolts and one multi-plug. You'll want a new
rubber seal for it.

Much like on my golf, mine was quite dirty, I've noticed a vast improvement
since cleaning it. I will do it more often.

To doki, I'm not sure the shareware version of vag com will allow you to do
the TB alignment routine, unless you registe rit for like £50-ish. I Too
have a cheap crude lead form ebay, I made sure it worked with all modules
and then registered it. A bargain imo. Although at some point I would love a
genuine ross tech lead. Although I read a few forum posts suggestion theres
a way to remove the shareware restrictions sometime back, not sure how much
truth there is to this.