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92 Jetta Turbo diesel - problem starting in morning

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AJ
 
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Default 92 Jetta Turbo diesel - problem starting in morning - 04-11-2007 , 09:05 AM






Hi:

1992 Jetta Turbo Diesel, recently has started having problems starting in
the morning. It is parked in a garage overnight. The overnight temperature
has been in the range of 0C to -7C.

Symptoms are: I turn the ignition, cold start lever out, glow plug indicator
light goes off in about 7-10 seconds, I turn the key all the way, the engine
is turning over nicely, but no ignition. I let the starter turn it for about
7-8 times, turn ignition off, cycle glow plugs again, let the starter turn
it for about 7-8 times, still no ignition. I see smoke from the tailpipe and
smell of unburnt fuel. Next, I plug in the block heater for about 20-30 mins
and it starts up in the first attempt. I drive to work, park it indoors, it
starts up OK in the evening when I'm going home. It's only in the morning
that I face this problem.

First, I got the battery checked at two different places and both tested
"replace battery". I replaced the battery this week, problem is still
persisting.

The indications to me are that next, I need to look at and replace the glow
plugs. They are 4 years - 50K kms old.

Comments/suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

AJ.



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samstone@aol.com
 
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Default Re: 92 Jetta Turbo diesel - problem starting in morning - 04-11-2007 , 09:52 AM






On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:05:32 -0400, "AJ" <amit at interlog dot com> wrote:

Quote:
Hi:

1992 Jetta Turbo Diesel, recently has started having problems starting in
the morning. It is parked in a garage overnight. The overnight temperature
has been in the range of 0C to -7C.

Symptoms are: I turn the ignition, cold start lever out, glow plug indicator
light goes off in about 7-10 seconds, I turn the key all the way, the engine
is turning over nicely, but no ignition. I let the starter turn it for about
7-8 times, turn ignition off, cycle glow plugs again, let the starter turn
it for about 7-8 times, still no ignition. I see smoke from the tailpipe and
smell of unburnt fuel. Next, I plug in the block heater for about 20-30 mins
and it starts up in the first attempt. I drive to work, park it indoors, it
starts up OK in the evening when I'm going home. It's only in the morning
that I face this problem.

First, I got the battery checked at two different places and both tested
"replace battery". I replaced the battery this week, problem is still
persisting.

The indications to me are that next, I need to look at and replace the glow
plugs. They are 4 years - 50K kms old.

Comments/suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

AJ.
Since you're smelling fuel when it doesn't start , the malfunction is probably
in the glo-plug circuit. Looking at an older vw electrical schematic for a diesel
there is a relay that supplies power to both the light and the glo-plugs.
If it were mine I'd pull one wire from a plug and put a 12v lamp in it's place
(circuit wise).
Turn the key to warm the plug and see if the light glows.
What happens in the cold mornings if you;d do the warm plugs up three times
with/out trying to crank the starter till the third time?
I never owned a diesel or worked on one though so all that is to be taken as a
comment only. ;-)
Quote:



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Baz
 
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Default Re: 92 Jetta Turbo diesel - problem starting in morning - 04-11-2007 , 10:06 AM




"AJ" <amit at interlog dot com> wrote

Quote:
Hi:

1992 Jetta Turbo Diesel, recently has started having problems starting in
the morning. It is parked in a garage overnight. The overnight temperature
has been in the range of 0C to -7C.

Symptoms are: I turn the ignition, cold start lever out, glow plug
indicator
light goes off in about 7-10 seconds, I turn the key all the way, the
engine
is turning over nicely, but no ignition. I let the starter turn it for
about
7-8 times, turn ignition off, cycle glow plugs again, let the starter turn
it for about 7-8 times, still no ignition. I see smoke from the tailpipe
and
smell of unburnt fuel. Next, I plug in the block heater for about 20-30
mins
and it starts up in the first attempt. I drive to work, park it indoors,
it
starts up OK in the evening when I'm going home. It's only in the morning
that I face this problem.

First, I got the battery checked at two different places and both tested
"replace battery". I replaced the battery this week, problem is still
persisting.

The indications to me are that next, I need to look at and replace the
glow
plugs. They are 4 years - 50K kms old.

Comments/suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

AJ.


I used to have a Diesel Transporter. I had the same problem, spent ages
looking for the problem and was just about to buy a new Solenoid valve and
spotted that the 30amp fuse had blown. Just a few pence and I was on the
way.
Baz




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Old   
pfjw@aol.com
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 92 Jetta Turbo diesel - problem starting in morning - 04-11-2007 , 04:05 PM



On Apr 11, 10:05 am, "AJ" <amit at interlog dot com> wrote:
Quote:
Hi:

1992 Jetta Turbo Diesel, recently has started having problems starting in
the morning. It is parked in a garage overnight. The overnight temperature
has been in the range of 0C to -7C.

Symptoms are: I turn the ignition, cold start lever out, glow plug indicator
light goes off in about 7-10 seconds, I turn the key all the way, the engine
is turning over nicely, but no ignition. I let the starter turn it for about
7-8 times, turn ignition off, cycle glow plugs again, let the starter turn
it for about 7-8 times, still no ignition. I see smoke from the tailpipe and
smell of unburnt fuel. Next, I plug in the block heater for about 20-30 mins
and it starts up in the first attempt. I drive to work, park it indoors, it
starts up OK in the evening when I'm going home. It's only in the morning
that I face this problem.

First, I got the battery checked at two different places and both tested
"replace battery". I replaced the battery this week, problem is still
persisting.

The indications to me are that next, I need to look at and replace the glow
plugs. They are 4 years - 50K kms old.

Comments/suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

AJ.
AJ:

There is a fuse, and glow-plugs crap out. If you are getting smoke
from the tailpipe, it is likely that one or two plugs are glowing and
that is what ultimately gets you started.

Check the fuse (really, a wide U-shaped link in its own carrier). And
TAKE IT OUT to check it. I have experienced a near-invisible hairline
crack failure on two different diesels that looked great to the eye,
but loosen one screw and out half fell.

Failing that, check each plug. The lamp-in-series will tell you if it
is open. No light, open plug, no glow. Been there with several diesels
as well. Glow-plugs are relativelty cheap and easy to install
however.

Once upon a time some 24+/- years ago, we drove a diesel Dasher up to
Vermont in the early winter. Wouldn't you know it, the glow-plug fuse
failed on a Saturday morning. A friend drove us to the VW dealer,
naturally the parts department was closed. However, at the front desk
was a bowl with glow-plug fuses in it, and a styrofoam cup behind it
with $2 marked on it. We were not the only ones sticking our $2 in.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA



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  #5  
Old   
dave AKA vwdoc1
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 92 Jetta Turbo diesel - problem starting in morning - 04-11-2007 , 07:52 PM



lol
Fuses in the cup.
That is one of my favorites diesel stories I like to hear! ;-)

If you determine that your glow plugs are bad, and they probably are, then I
recommend the use of those Gear Wrenches (ratcheting wrenches). Really
makes that job go much quicker IMHO. ;-)

Also check the coolant temperature sensor for the glow plugs.
--
later,
dave
(One out of many daves)

<pfjw (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
On Apr 11, 10:05 am, "AJ" <amit at interlog dot com> wrote:
Hi:

1992 Jetta Turbo Diesel, recently has started having problems starting in
the morning. It is parked in a garage overnight. The overnight
temperature
has been in the range of 0C to -7C.

Symptoms are: I turn the ignition, cold start lever out, glow plug
indicator
light goes off in about 7-10 seconds, I turn the key all the way, the
engine
is turning over nicely, but no ignition. I let the starter turn it for
about
7-8 times, turn ignition off, cycle glow plugs again, let the starter
turn
it for about 7-8 times, still no ignition. I see smoke from the tailpipe
and
smell of unburnt fuel. Next, I plug in the block heater for about 20-30
mins
and it starts up in the first attempt. I drive to work, park it indoors,
it
starts up OK in the evening when I'm going home. It's only in the morning
that I face this problem.

First, I got the battery checked at two different places and both tested
"replace battery". I replaced the battery this week, problem is still
persisting.

The indications to me are that next, I need to look at and replace the
glow
plugs. They are 4 years - 50K kms old.

Comments/suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

AJ.

AJ:

There is a fuse, and glow-plugs crap out. If you are getting smoke
from the tailpipe, it is likely that one or two plugs are glowing and
that is what ultimately gets you started.

Check the fuse (really, a wide U-shaped link in its own carrier). And
TAKE IT OUT to check it. I have experienced a near-invisible hairline
crack failure on two different diesels that looked great to the eye,
but loosen one screw and out half fell.

Failing that, check each plug. The lamp-in-series will tell you if it
is open. No light, open plug, no glow. Been there with several diesels
as well. Glow-plugs are relativelty cheap and easy to install
however.

Once upon a time some 24+/- years ago, we drove a diesel Dasher up to
Vermont in the early winter. Wouldn't you know it, the glow-plug fuse
failed on a Saturday morning. A friend drove us to the VW dealer,
naturally the parts department was closed. However, at the front desk
was a bowl with glow-plug fuses in it, and a styrofoam cup behind it
with $2 marked on it. We were not the only ones sticking our $2 in.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA




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  #6  
Old   
samstone@aol.com
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 92 Jetta Turbo diesel - problem starting in morning - 04-12-2007 , 05:36 PM



On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:52:06 GMT, samstone (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

Quote:
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:05:32 -0400, "AJ" <amit at interlog dot com> wrote:

Hi:

1992 Jetta Turbo Diesel, recently has started having problems starting in
the morning. It is parked in a garage overnight. The overnight temperature
has been in the range of 0C to -7C.

Symptoms are: I turn the ignition, cold start lever out, glow plug indicator
light goes off in about 7-10 seconds, I turn the key all the way, the engine
is turning over nicely, but no ignition. I let the starter turn it for about
7-8 times, turn ignition off, cycle glow plugs again, let the starter turn
it for about 7-8 times, still no ignition. I see smoke from the tailpipe and
smell of unburnt fuel. Next, I plug in the block heater for about 20-30 mins
and it starts up in the first attempt. I drive to work, park it indoors, it
starts up OK in the evening when I'm going home. It's only in the morning
that I face this problem.

First, I got the battery checked at two different places and both tested
"replace battery". I replaced the battery this week, problem is still
persisting.

The indications to me are that next, I need to look at and replace the glow
plugs. They are 4 years - 50K kms old.

Comments/suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

AJ.
Since you're smelling fuel when it doesn't start , the malfunction is probably
in the glo-plug circuit. Looking at an older vw electrical schematic for a diesel
there is a relay that supplies power to both the light and the glo-plugs.
If it were mine I'd pull one wire from a plug and put a 12v lamp in it's place
(circuit wise).
Turn the key to warm the plug and see if the light glows.
This test will tell you if the relay and fuse are working , the lamp in this test is not
in series with the glo-plug, it is directly gounded.
Quote:
What happens in the cold mornings if you;d do the warm plugs up three times
with/out trying to crank the starter till the third time?
I never owned a diesel or worked on one though so all that is to be taken as a
comment only. ;-)





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  #7  
Old   
none2u
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 92 Jetta Turbo diesel - problem starting in morning - 04-13-2007 , 06:00 PM




"dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwdoc1 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
lol
Fuses in the cup.
That is one of my favorites diesel stories I like to hear! ;-)

If you determine that your glow plugs are bad, and they probably are, then
I recommend the use of those Gear Wrenches (ratcheting wrenches). Really
makes that job go much quicker IMHO. ;-)

Also check the coolant temperature sensor for the glow plugs.
--
later,
dave
(One out of many daves)

pfjw (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1176325528.349990.54270 (AT) n59g2000hsh (DOT) googlegroups.com...
On Apr 11, 10:05 am, "AJ" <amit at interlog dot com> wrote:
Hi:

1992 Jetta Turbo Diesel, recently has started having problems starting
in
the morning. It is parked in a garage overnight. The overnight
temperature
has been in the range of 0C to -7C.

Symptoms are: I turn the ignition, cold start lever out, glow plug
indicator
light goes off in about 7-10 seconds, I turn the key all the way, the
engine
is turning over nicely, but no ignition. I let the starter turn it for
about
7-8 times, turn ignition off, cycle glow plugs again, let the starter
turn
it for about 7-8 times, still no ignition. I see smoke from the tailpipe
and
smell of unburnt fuel. Next, I plug in the block heater for about 20-30
mins
and it starts up in the first attempt. I drive to work, park it indoors,
it
starts up OK in the evening when I'm going home. It's only in the
morning
that I face this problem.

First, I got the battery checked at two different places and both tested
"replace battery". I replaced the battery this week, problem is still
persisting.

The indications to me are that next, I need to look at and replace the
glow
plugs. They are 4 years - 50K kms old.

Comments/suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

AJ.

AJ:

There is a fuse, and glow-plugs crap out. If you are getting smoke
from the tailpipe, it is likely that one or two plugs are glowing and
that is what ultimately gets you started.

Check the fuse (really, a wide U-shaped link in its own carrier). And
TAKE IT OUT to check it. I have experienced a near-invisible hairline
crack failure on two different diesels that looked great to the eye,
but loosen one screw and out half fell.

Failing that, check each plug. The lamp-in-series will tell you if it
is open. No light, open plug, no glow. Been there with several diesels
as well. Glow-plugs are relativelty cheap and easy to install
however.

Once upon a time some 24+/- years ago, we drove a diesel Dasher up to
Vermont in the early winter. Wouldn't you know it, the glow-plug fuse
failed on a Saturday morning. A friend drove us to the VW dealer,
naturally the parts department was closed. However, at the front desk
was a bowl with glow-plug fuses in it, and a styrofoam cup behind it
with $2 marked on it. We were not the only ones sticking our $2 in.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA


Your symptoms are exactly what happens when two glow plugs burn out on
an older diesel. There's smoke in the tailpipe because some plugs are
working. The block heater is enough to start the car with bad
glowplugs. At work there's still heat in the engine. Or its not as cold
indoors. It starts. Overnight the car cold soaks. It needs them again.
Everybody else is right too on what to check. But you have classic bad
glow plug problems.



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