'92 GTI 16V What's it worth?

I just retired this car, at about 250k. Original clutch
finally went. I'm trying to figure out what it's worth, as
is.

Kelly claims a value of about $1,100, in fair condition.
But I'm not sure if that assumes that certain components
have been replaced at some point. Aside from the original
clutch, it's also got the original suspension and CV joints,
neither of which indicate need for replacement.

Engine and cooling system are good. Oil use is still w/in
spec. The radiator was replaced probably 75k ago (when I
slid into a guard rail). Water pump and timing belt were
replaced maybe 40k ago.

Body is decent--a few 1/4" or so dots of rust. Interior has
held up well, though the headliner is starting to sag in places.

Aside from the clutch, the only known mechanical issues are
the master cylinder, which is starting to go; the shift
linkage is worn--won't go into 1st anymore; and the
emergency brake actuating levers (on the rear brake
assemblies) are frozen. (Not sure if that's a big deal.)

Also, the original 15" BBS wheels are missing. I live in
the NE and was tired of them always being out of round (much
too soft for the roads around here) so I got rid of them and
put on the 14s from my '84 GTI, which are pretty beat at
this point.

What's a fair price for this old bomber?

-Dave

On Sun, 20 May 2007 13:07:33 -0400, Dave M <noSp@m.net> wrote:

I just retired this car, at about 250k. Original clutch
finally went. I'm trying to figure out what it's worth, as
is.

Kelly claims a value of about $1,100, in fair condition.
But I'm not sure if that assumes that certain components
have been replaced at some point. Aside from the original
clutch, it's also got the original suspension and CV joints,
neither of which indicate need for replacement.

Engine and cooling system are good. Oil use is still w/in
spec. The radiator was replaced probably 75k ago (when I
slid into a guard rail). Water pump and timing belt were
replaced maybe 40k ago.

Body is decent--a few 1/4" or so dots of rust. Interior has
held up well, though the headliner is starting to sag in places.

Aside from the clutch, the only known mechanical issues are
the master cylinder, which is starting to go; the shift
linkage is worn--won't go into 1st anymore; and the
emergency brake actuating levers (on the rear brake
assemblies) are frozen. (Not sure if that's a big deal.)

Also, the original 15" BBS wheels are missing. I live in
the NE and was tired of them always being out of round (much
too soft for the roads around here) so I got rid of them and
put on the 14s from my '84 GTI, which are pretty beat at
this point.

What's a fair price for this old bomber?

-Dave

Oh, about $5 or so...

Face it, it doesn't run, and has reached the end of it's life. That
KBB figure is bogus, especially since the car isn't in 'fair'
condition.

On Sun, 20 May 2007 13:07:33 -0400, Dave M <noSp@m.net> wrote:

I just retired this car, at about 250k. Original clutch
finally went. I'm trying to figure out what it's worth, as
is.

Kelly claims a value of about $1,100, in fair condition.
But I'm not sure if that assumes that certain components
have been replaced at some point. Aside from the original
clutch, it's also got the original suspension and CV joints,
neither of which indicate need for replacement.

Engine and cooling system are good. Oil use is still w/in
spec. The radiator was replaced probably 75k ago (when I
slid into a guard rail). Water pump and timing belt were
replaced maybe 40k ago.

Body is decent--a few 1/4" or so dots of rust. Interior has
held up well, though the headliner is starting to sag in places.

Aside from the clutch, the only known mechanical issues are
the master cylinder, which is starting to go; the shift
linkage is worn--won't go into 1st anymore; and the
emergency brake actuating levers (on the rear brake
assemblies) are frozen. (Not sure if that's a big deal.)

Also, the original 15" BBS wheels are missing. I live in
the NE and was tired of them always being out of round (much
too soft for the roads around here) so I got rid of them and
put on the 14s from my '84 GTI, which are pretty beat at
this point.

What's a fair price for this old bomber?

-Dave
A picky person would spend $2-3,000 to get it road worthy. New clutch,

new shifter linkage, new grill, body work, new struts, headliner, a
ton of brake work, not just a little brake work, wrong wheels. Well
the parts price might be correct. No labor. If someone does not mind a
car that the car will not go, it is unsafe to stop, needs paint then
maybe $5 is fair. It sounds rather neglected if you asked me. Usually
you pay people to tow a money pit away.

new grill, body work, new struts, headliner, a
ton of brake work, not just a little brake work, wrong wheels. Well
the parts price might be correct. No labor. If someone does not mind a
car that the car will not go, it is unsafe to stop, needs paint then
maybe $5 is fair. It sounds rather neglected if you asked me.

No, no. It doesn't need a grill or body work, or any paint.
The crash was years ago and was completely fixed. As I
said in my OP, the paint and body is in good shape except
for a few very small rust spots.

How is it neglected? The shift linkage and master cylinder
started showing trouble just in the past 2-3 mos. The car
stops fine, though as I said the e-brake needs fixing. The
headliner started coming down last maybe 9 mos ago. Other
than that, the interior is good.

I don't know about you, but I don't fix stuff that isn't
broken. Nor do I repair stuff that's on its way on a car
I'm planning to replace in a few mos.

Face it, it doesn't run, and has reached the end of it's life. That
KBB figure is bogus, especially since the car isn't in 'fair'
condition.

You say the KBB value is bogus. Bogus for a car in "fair"
shape? I know this car isn't in "fair" condition, which is
why I inquired here. If this model in "fair" condition is
worth $1,100, why isn't this particular car worth even a
couple of hundred?

As I said, it does run. (I was driving it until the clutch
went.) The engine and cooling system are good. The
suspension, and body are good--just a few very small rust
spots--no dings of any kind. Interior quite good except for
the headliner.

I can accept if the car's worth nothing. But let's not
mischaracterize its condition.

around here that's a $100 car. As for KBB, they are normally about $2000
high compared to what cars bring in my area.


"Dave M" <noSp@m.net> wrote

I just retired this car, at about 250k. Original clutch finally went. I'm
trying to figure out what it's worth, as is.

Kelly claims a value of about $1,100, in fair condition. But I'm not sure
if that assumes that certain components have been replaced at some point.
Aside from the original clutch, it's also got the original suspension and
CV joints, neither of which indicate need for replacement.

Engine and cooling system are good. Oil use is still w/in spec. The
radiator was replaced probably 75k ago (when I slid into a guard rail).
Water pump and timing belt were replaced maybe 40k ago.

Body is decent--a few 1/4" or so dots of rust. Interior has held up well,
though the headliner is starting to sag in places.

Aside from the clutch, the only known mechanical issues are the master
cylinder, which is starting to go; the shift linkage is worn--won't go
into 1st anymore; and the emergency brake actuating levers (on the rear
brake assemblies) are frozen. (Not sure if that's a big deal.)

Also, the original 15" BBS wheels are missing. I live in the NE and was
tired of them always being out of round (much too soft for the roads
around here) so I got rid of them and put on the 14s from my '84 GTI,
which are pretty beat at this point.

What's a fair price for this old bomber?

-Dave

"Dave M" <noSp@m.net> wrote

How is it neglected? The shift linkage and master cylinder started
showing trouble just in the past 2-3 mos. The car stops fine, though as I
said the e-brake needs fixing. The headliner started coming down last
maybe 9 mos ago. Other than that, the interior is good.

The engine may start but if it can't be moved under it's own power (which it
can't w/a shot clutch), that's "not running". If you can't get in a drive
it away, it's "not running" in my book.

It might not be neglected in terms of its lifetime but seeing as there's
stuff that needs attention that prevents the car from being driveable, well,
that's neglect. Sounds like it needs quite a bit to get it on the road
safely again.

if it can't be moved under it's own power (which it
can't w/a shot clutch), that's "not running".

Not to quibble about semantics, but I'd say "not driveable".
To me "not running" suggests motor trouble, which it does
not have.

It might not be neglected in terms of its lifetime but seeing as there's
stuff that needs attention that prevents the car from being driveable, well,
that's neglect.

OK, I'll cop to that, w/ the stipulation that I doubt many
people would spend money on a high-mileage car they were
planning to replace soon. That's why I was surprised at the
criticism.

The car WAS driveable until the clutch went. Even though
the brakes need attention, they stop the car just fine. I
wouldn't have driven the car if they didn't.

around here that's a $100 car.

Thanks.

On Mon, 21 May 2007 09:53:17 -0400, Dave M <noSp@m.net> wrote:

if it can't be moved under it's own power (which it
can't w/a shot clutch), that's "not running".

Not to quibble about semantics, but I'd say "not driveable".
To me "not running" suggests motor trouble, which it does
not have.

It might not be neglected in terms of its lifetime but seeing as there's
stuff that needs attention that prevents the car from being driveable, well,
that's neglect.

OK, I'll cop to that, w/ the stipulation that I doubt many
people would spend money on a high-mileage car they were
planning to replace soon. That's why I was surprised at the
criticism.

The car WAS driveable until the clutch went. Even though
the brakes need attention, they stop the car just fine. I
wouldn't have driven the car if they didn't.
For what it is worth a clutch kit and a basic shifter bushing kit can

be had for less than $200. Problem is you have to pay for labor if you
are buying the car. My wild guess is a good mechanic would do it in
less than 2 hours but it would take me all day to change the clutch. I
would also be changing al the seals onthe transmission and replacing
the crankshaft seal. The tranny seals are what take time. A mechanic
might take another hour or two to do all the seals. Just a fw minutes
to do the crankshaft seal. So now the bad clutch is $500 to replace.
If they want to address the brakes it could be another hundred in
part. I have no guess on those parts.

Just because some of us curmudgeony guys are shooting down your price
does not mean that you could not get someone to pay you $500-600 for
the car. Is the clutch really that trashed? The shifter bushings have
worked miracles on many a car for 15-30 minutes of labor. I drove a VW
home from work as someone did not want to store it at work. The
shifter bugged me so much that I went to the dealer to get the bushing
kit. It shifted fine with that inexpensive kit even if it needed a new
reverse lockout kit. That requires a bit more time that I was not
willing to spend.