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1993 Volvo 850 with 256 kmi Stalled and will not start.

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  #1  
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Mark Barron
 
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Default 1993 Volvo 850 with 256 kmi Stalled and will not start. - 08-14-2009 , 03:01 PM






The car was driven a couple of miles. It was behaving well
but had a fairly rough idle. The car came to a stop, the accelerator
was press, the car began to move and then stalled and has not started
since.

The plugs are new and have good spark
The fuel rail has 43 psi. Pressure bleeds away overnight.
The pressure reaches 43 psi very quickly.

If i crank the engine, the plugs do not appear to be wet.
If I stick in a twist of paper towel in the spark plug hole
in place of a plug, the towel does not appear to be wet after
a 5 second crank. I can however smell gas then.
-The resistance of the VSS speed sensor is 1740 ohms instead of
the expected 200 ohms.
-There is 11 volts between CMP sensor term 3 and ground (10 V is expected)
-CMP terminal 1 to ground is 0 ohms, as desired
-when I check the power stage control signal (terminal 4 to ground)
I get 0.2 volts, where I read I should have 0.7-1.3 V (what does this mean?)

I have an 98 S70 to pull parts from.

Questions:
1. I have a diagnosis write up(named "BasicTesting-Turbo.pdf" for a
Volvo and it says to use
a breakout box( I don't have one) for a CMP sensor test, that is
"check between BOBox terminal 20 and 4 and Operate the starter
voltage should vary between 0-5 volts"
Would the terminals 20 and 4 correspond to wires labeled 20 and 4
in a Haynes Volvo 850 wiring diagram?

2. Can a ECU from a 98 s70 go in an 850? Roughly what would I have
to pay for an ECU?

3. What do I do next? I wish I had a better write-up.

Thanks for reading.
Many Thanks, Mark

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  #2  
Old   
James Sweet
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 1993 Volvo 850 with 256 kmi Stalled and will not start. - 08-14-2009 , 09:45 PM






Mark Barron wrote:
Quote:
The car was driven a couple of miles. It was behaving well
but had a fairly rough idle. The car came to a stop, the accelerator
was press, the car began to move and then stalled and has not started
since.

The plugs are new and have good spark
The fuel rail has 43 psi. Pressure bleeds away overnight.
The pressure reaches 43 psi very quickly.

If i crank the engine, the plugs do not appear to be wet.
If I stick in a twist of paper towel in the spark plug hole
in place of a plug, the towel does not appear to be wet after
a 5 second crank. I can however smell gas then.
-The resistance of the VSS speed sensor is 1740 ohms instead of
the expected 200 ohms.
-There is 11 volts between CMP sensor term 3 and ground (10 V is expected)
-CMP terminal 1 to ground is 0 ohms, as desired
-when I check the power stage control signal (terminal 4 to ground)
I get 0.2 volts, where I read I should have 0.7-1.3 V (what does this
mean?)

I have an 98 S70 to pull parts from.

Questions:
1. I have a diagnosis write up(named "BasicTesting-Turbo.pdf" for a
Volvo and it says to use
a breakout box( I don't have one) for a CMP sensor test, that is
"check between BOBox terminal 20 and 4 and Operate the starter
voltage should vary between 0-5 volts"
Would the terminals 20 and 4 correspond to wires labeled 20 and 4
in a Haynes Volvo 850 wiring diagram?

2. Can a ECU from a 98 s70 go in an 850? Roughly what would I have
to pay for an ECU?

3. What do I do next? I wish I had a better write-up.

Thanks for reading.
Many Thanks, Mark

Do you know if you're getting a spark? That's the first thing I'd check,
if you have a spark, then the problem is probably fuel, but if you smell
gas, I'm leaning towards ignition.

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  #3  
Old   
Mark Barron
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 1993 Volvo 850 with 256 kmi Stalled and will not start. - 08-15-2009 , 10:37 AM



Mark Barron wrote:
Quote:
The car was driven a couple of miles. It was behaving well
but had a fairly rough idle. The car came to a stop, the accelerator
was press, the car began to move and then stalled and has not started
since.

The plugs are new and have good spark
The fuel rail has 43 psi. Pressure bleeds away overnight.
The pressure reaches 43 psi very quickly.

If i crank the engine, the plugs do not appear to be wet.
If I stick in a twist of paper towel in the spark plug hole
in place of a plug, the towel does not appear to be wet after
a 5 second crank. I can however smell gas then.
-The resistance of the VSS speed sensor is 1740 ohms instead of
the expected 200 ohms.
-There is 11 volts between CMP sensor term 3 and ground (10 V is expected)
-CMP terminal 1 to ground is 0 ohms, as desired
-when I check the power stage control signal (terminal 4 to ground)
I get 0.2 volts, where I read I should have 0.7-1.3 V (what does this
mean?)

I have an 98 S70 to pull parts from.

Questions:
1. I have a diagnosis write up(named "BasicTesting-Turbo.pdf" for a
Volvo and it says to use
a breakout box( I don't have one) for a CMP sensor test, that is
"check between BOBox terminal 20 and 4 and Operate the starter
voltage should vary between 0-5 volts"
Would the terminals 20 and 4 correspond to wires labeled 20 and 4
in a Haynes Volvo 850 wiring diagram?

2. Can a ECU from a 98 s70 go in an 850? Roughly what would I have
to pay for an ECU?

3. What do I do next? I wish I had a better write-up.

Thanks for reading.
Many Thanks, Mark
I removed the air filter assembly and shot Starter Fluid into the
intake. It did not fire although the engine turned over well.
I quess I will swap CMP sensor from my 98 s70.
Thanks, Mark

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  #4  
Old   
Mark Barron
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 1993 Volvo 850 with 256 kmi Stalled and will not start. - 08-16-2009 , 09:32 PM



James Sweet wrote:
Quote:
Mark Barron wrote:
The car was driven a couple of miles. It was behaving well
but had a fairly rough idle. The car came to a stop, the accelerator
was press, the car began to move and then stalled and has not started
since.

The plugs are new and have good spark
The fuel rail has 43 psi. Pressure bleeds away overnight.
The pressure reaches 43 psi very quickly.

If i crank the engine, the plugs do not appear to be wet.
If I stick in a twist of paper towel in the spark plug hole
in place of a plug, the towel does not appear to be wet after
a 5 second crank. I can however smell gas then.
-The resistance of the VSS speed sensor is 1740 ohms instead of
the expected 200 ohms.
-There is 11 volts between CMP sensor term 3 and ground (10 V is
expected)
-CMP terminal 1 to ground is 0 ohms, as desired
-when I check the power stage control signal (terminal 4 to ground)
I get 0.2 volts, where I read I should have 0.7-1.3 V (what does this
mean?)

I have an 98 S70 to pull parts from.

Questions:
1. I have a diagnosis write up(named "BasicTesting-Turbo.pdf" for a
Volvo and it says to use
a breakout box( I don't have one) for a CMP sensor test, that is
"check between BOBox terminal 20 and 4 and Operate the starter
voltage should vary between 0-5 volts"
Would the terminals 20 and 4 correspond to wires labeled 20 and 4
in a Haynes Volvo 850 wiring diagram?

2. Can a ECU from a 98 s70 go in an 850? Roughly what would I have
to pay for an ECU?

3. What do I do next? I wish I had a better write-up.

Thanks for reading.
Many Thanks, Mark


Do you know if you're getting a spark? That's the first thing I'd check,
if you have a spark, then the problem is probably fuel, but if you smell
gas, I'm leaning towards ignition.
I have spark, but even when I squirt starter fluid into the intake
directly, I can not get the engine to even cough. How can that be?
I will check again to insure that I still have spark.
Thanks you for replying.
Mark

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old   
James Sweet
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 1993 Volvo 850 with 256 kmi Stalled and will not start. - 08-16-2009 , 10:02 PM



Mark Barron wrote:
Quote:
James Sweet wrote:
Mark Barron wrote:
The car was driven a couple of miles. It was behaving well
but had a fairly rough idle. The car came to a stop, the accelerator
was press, the car began to move and then stalled and has not started
since.

The plugs are new and have good spark
The fuel rail has 43 psi. Pressure bleeds away overnight.
The pressure reaches 43 psi very quickly.

If i crank the engine, the plugs do not appear to be wet.
If I stick in a twist of paper towel in the spark plug hole
in place of a plug, the towel does not appear to be wet after
a 5 second crank. I can however smell gas then.
-The resistance of the VSS speed sensor is 1740 ohms instead of
the expected 200 ohms.
-There is 11 volts between CMP sensor term 3 and ground (10 V is
expected)
-CMP terminal 1 to ground is 0 ohms, as desired
-when I check the power stage control signal (terminal 4 to ground)
I get 0.2 volts, where I read I should have 0.7-1.3 V (what does this
mean?)

I have an 98 S70 to pull parts from.

Questions:
1. I have a diagnosis write up(named "BasicTesting-Turbo.pdf" for a
Volvo and it says to use
a breakout box( I don't have one) for a CMP sensor test, that is
"check between BOBox terminal 20 and 4 and Operate the starter
voltage should vary between 0-5 volts"
Would the terminals 20 and 4 correspond to wires labeled 20 and 4
in a Haynes Volvo 850 wiring diagram?

2. Can a ECU from a 98 s70 go in an 850? Roughly what would I have
to pay for an ECU?

3. What do I do next? I wish I had a better write-up.

Thanks for reading.
Many Thanks, Mark


Do you know if you're getting a spark? That's the first thing I'd
check, if you have a spark, then the problem is probably fuel, but if
you smell gas, I'm leaning towards ignition.

I have spark, but even when I squirt starter fluid into the intake
directly, I can not get the engine to even cough. How can that be?
I will check again to insure that I still have spark.
Thanks you for replying.
Mark

Is there compression? Timing belt didn't break did it?

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old   
Mark Barron
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 1993 Volvo 850 with 256 kmi Stalled and will not start. Morefindings - 08-17-2009 , 05:26 PM



James Sweet wrote:
Quote:
Mark Barron wrote:
James Sweet wrote:
Mark Barron wrote:
The car was driven a couple of miles. It was behaving well
but had a fairly rough idle. The car came to a stop, the accelerator
was press, the car began to move and then stalled and has not started
since.

The plugs are new and have good spark
The fuel rail has 43 psi. Pressure bleeds away overnight.
The pressure reaches 43 psi very quickly.

If i crank the engine, the plugs do not appear to be wet.
If I stick in a twist of paper towel in the spark plug hole
in place of a plug, the towel does not appear to be wet after
a 5 second crank. I can however smell gas then.
-The resistance of the VSS speed sensor is 1740 ohms instead of
the expected 200 ohms.
-There is 11 volts between CMP sensor term 3 and ground (10 V is
expected)
-CMP terminal 1 to ground is 0 ohms, as desired
-when I check the power stage control signal (terminal 4 to ground)
I get 0.2 volts, where I read I should have 0.7-1.3 V (what does
this mean?)

I have an 98 S70 to pull parts from.

Questions:
1. I have a diagnosis write up(named "BasicTesting-Turbo.pdf" for a
Volvo and it says to use
a breakout box( I don't have one) for a CMP sensor test, that is
"check between BOBox terminal 20 and 4 and Operate the starter
voltage should vary between 0-5 volts"
Would the terminals 20 and 4 correspond to wires labeled 20 and 4
in a Haynes Volvo 850 wiring diagram?

2. Can a ECU from a 98 s70 go in an 850? Roughly what would I have
to pay for an ECU?

3. What do I do next? I wish I had a better write-up.

Thanks for reading.
Many Thanks, Mark


Do you know if you're getting a spark? That's the first thing I'd
check, if you have a spark, then the problem is probably fuel, but if
you smell gas, I'm leaning towards ignition.

I have spark, but even when I squirt starter fluid into the intake
directly, I can not get the engine to even cough. How can that be?
I will check again to insure that I still have spark.
Thanks you for replying.
Mark


Is there compression? Timing belt didn't break did it?
Belts are good, I replace the timing belt last summer, I honestly have
not checked compression will do tonight.
I think I may have found the problem. I tested voltage at 3 of the five
injector connectors. The wires are green and white. When I turn on the
ignition, BOTH wires have battery voltage , +12.85. Is this right?
Does one of the wires get cyclically grounded by the ECU and thereby
cause the injector to fire? Or is this situation indicative of wires
crossed? I am not yet sure where the green and white injector wires run,
I am guessing to the ECU. Let's say for argument, that the cause of the
no start is the fact that the injectors don't fire. If I find 12.8 at
the injectors then what is left to explain the injectors not firing? --
The ECU right?
Thanks for reading.

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  #7  
Old   
James Sweet
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 1993 Volvo 850 with 256 kmi Stalled and will not start. Morefindings - 08-18-2009 , 12:17 AM



Quote:
Is there compression? Timing belt didn't break did it?
Belts are good, I replace the timing belt last summer, I honestly have
not checked compression will do tonight.
I think I may have found the problem. I tested voltage at 3 of the five
injector connectors. The wires are green and white. When I turn on the
ignition, BOTH wires have battery voltage , +12.85. Is this right?
Does one of the wires get cyclically grounded by the ECU and thereby
cause the injector to fire? Or is this situation indicative of wires
crossed? I am not yet sure where the green and white injector wires run,
I am guessing to the ECU. Let's say for argument, that the cause of the
no start is the fact that the injectors don't fire. If I find 12.8 at
the injectors then what is left to explain the injectors not firing? --
The ECU right?
Thanks for reading.

Generally speaking, yes, one wire receives +12V and the other is pulled
low by a power transistor in the ECU. The pulse is brief though,
especially at start/idle. You really need to connect a test light across
the injector connector and crank it, if all is well the light will
flash. Sometimes you can also hear the injectors tick but the starter
can drown it out.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old   
Mark Barron
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 1993 Volvo 850 with 256 kmi Stalled and will not start. - 08-18-2009 , 09:21 AM



James Sweet wrote:
Quote:
Mark Barron wrote:
James Sweet wrote:
Mark Barron wrote:
The car was driven a couple of miles. It was behaving well
but had a fairly rough idle. The car came to a stop, the accelerator
was press, the car began to move and then stalled and has not started
since.

The plugs are new and have good spark
The fuel rail has 43 psi. Pressure bleeds away overnight.
The pressure reaches 43 psi very quickly.

If i crank the engine, the plugs do not appear to be wet.
If I stick in a twist of paper towel in the spark plug hole
in place of a plug, the towel does not appear to be wet after
a 5 second crank. I can however smell gas then.
-The resistance of the VSS speed sensor is 1740 ohms instead of
the expected 200 ohms.
-There is 11 volts between CMP sensor term 3 and ground (10 V is
expected)
-CMP terminal 1 to ground is 0 ohms, as desired
-when I check the power stage control signal (terminal 4 to ground)
I get 0.2 volts, where I read I should have 0.7-1.3 V (what does
this mean?)

I have an 98 S70 to pull parts from.

Questions:
1. I have a diagnosis write up(named "BasicTesting-Turbo.pdf" for a
Volvo and it says to use
a breakout box( I don't have one) for a CMP sensor test, that is
"check between BOBox terminal 20 and 4 and Operate the starter
voltage should vary between 0-5 volts"
Would the terminals 20 and 4 correspond to wires labeled 20 and 4
in a Haynes Volvo 850 wiring diagram?

2. Can a ECU from a 98 s70 go in an 850? Roughly what would I have
to pay for an ECU?

3. What do I do next? I wish I had a better write-up.

Thanks for reading.
Many Thanks, Mark


Do you know if you're getting a spark? That's the first thing I'd
check, if you have a spark, then the problem is probably fuel, but if
you smell gas, I'm leaning towards ignition.

I have spark, but even when I squirt starter fluid into the intake
directly, I can not get the engine to even cough. How can that be?
I will check again to insure that I still have spark.
Thanks you for replying.
Mark


Is there compression? Timing belt didn't break did it?
The timing belt did not break. I got the following compression readings
1-4. Battery was too low to get #5.
75
85
98
65
psi

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  #9  
Old   
Mark Barron
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 1993 Volvo 850 with 256 kmi Stalled and will not start. Morefindings - 08-18-2009 , 09:24 AM



James Sweet wrote:
Quote:

Is there compression? Timing belt didn't break did it?
Belts are good, I replace the timing belt last summer, I honestly have
not checked compression will do tonight.
I think I may have found the problem. I tested voltage at 3 of the five
injector connectors. The wires are green and white. When I turn on the
ignition, BOTH wires have battery voltage , +12.85. Is this right?
Does one of the wires get cyclically grounded by the ECU and thereby
cause the injector to fire? Or is this situation indicative of wires
crossed? I am not yet sure where the green and white injector wires run,
I am guessing to the ECU. Let's say for argument, that the cause of
the no start is the fact that the injectors don't fire. If I find 12.8
at the injectors then what is left to explain the injectors not
firing? -- The ECU right?
Thanks for reading.


Generally speaking, yes, one wire receives +12V and the other is pulled
low by a power transistor in the ECU. The pulse is brief though,
especially at start/idle. You really need to connect a test light across
the injector connector and crank it, if all is well the light will
flash. Sometimes you can also hear the injectors tick but the starter
can drown it out.
I will be on the hunt for what I think is called a noid light.
Thanks!

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  #10  
Old   
James Sweet
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: 1993 Volvo 850 with 256 kmi Stalled and will not start. Morefindings - 08-18-2009 , 03:39 PM



Quote:

Generally speaking, yes, one wire receives +12V and the other is
pulled low by a power transistor in the ECU. The pulse is brief
though, especially at start/idle. You really need to connect a test
light across the injector connector and crank it, if all is well the
light will flash. Sometimes you can also hear the injectors tick but
the starter can drown it out.

I will be on the hunt for what I think is called a noid light.
Thanks!


That's the tool designed for the job, but it's not the only way to do
it. In a pinch you can take one of those wedge based bulbs used as side
markers on a lot of cars, bend down the wire contacts and poke them into
the injector connector. Another approach is a regular automotive test
light, the sort that looks similar to a screwdriver with a sharp tip and
a bulb in the handle. Poke some thin wires into the contact sockets on
the injector connector and connect the test light there.

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