That was relatively recent, and thankfully Ford didn't seem to stick
their fingers in the works too much, and being American, I'd much rather
support and American company than Chinese, though the domestic brands
never impressed me much. It never used to bother me, but it's so hard to
buy anything anymore that isn't made in China, and while some of it is
ok, I find the quality control and consistency to be marginal at best,
and so much of what they make are shameless copies of quality items. It
will take a long time before I trust anything that comes from there.

My personal interest is in the old RWD models, they'll never build them
like that again, thankfully there are enough of them out there still
that I'm unlikely to ever run out.

On 12/03/09 3:22 AM, in article gp8vfr$rq6$1 (AT) news (DOT) motzarella.org, "James
Sweet" <jamessweet1 (AT) trashmail (DOT) net> wrote:

I can't help but think that what we are complaining about today, will be
what we are unashamedly showing off with pride when one sits on our driveway
in years to come.

Volvo is more than just cars, it is and has been an international player for
years. Volvo trucks in China has been a world's best practice establishment
in saftey, quality and environmental issues.

Maybe Volvo may speak a prophetic word to the other vehicle manufacturers
and lead the way. The new China is a very changed China, and the balance is
swinging in terms of quality and processes, and environment. Volvo has
standards of how things are done, that wont be changing because of a change
to the geographical location of ownership or the ethnicity or race or colour
of those making the decisions.

I choose to believe that the tones of some of the threads in this group are
more of a statement of love for our volvo babies and wanting the best for
volvo in the future rather than the tinge of racist bigotry that is creeping
in.

It doesn't matter what threats we put out there, Volvo will do what Volvo
does.

And surely it can't all be doom and gloom. To owners who have had to
replace gearboxes (at least one or several) and throttle control modules
(similarly) and air conditioner compressors on v70's, to those who have
lamented the day they bought an S80 and every time it has gone back for more
and more issues as it has quickly depreciated. To those of us who can't
figure why our 940 wheel trim costs more than the crank angle sensor or any
of the other logic that prevails in parts price bins. To those who lament
going to dealers and those who lament not going to dealers.

I'm prepared to wait and see, anyone who has enough money to bid for Volvo
knows they are buying more than a vehicle manufacturing and mass production
line, they are buying a reputation, a very demanding customer base of
standards in safety, quality and environment, they are buying something that
if tinkered with too much in the wrong direction the sales and profits will
disappear very quickly and it will be worthless. China has managed to
strike the balance and do it well with Volvo trucks manufactuering over the
past decade - why don't we want to believe they can do it with cars also.

Jeff

On Mar 11, 10:47*am, Radioguy <hjs... (AT) cs (DOT) com> wrote:
No, that's not what I meant. If you recall how the production year
of a automobile is done, this year's model vehicles were tooled,
parts procured, and inventory scheduled from the prior year. So if
Volvo were to be sold today to China, this production year would
be pre-Chinese. Let me know if I'm wrong here....

In the case of Ford, I've always deplored their safety record. Do
you recall the exploding Pinto, the collapsing roof of a F150,
and fuel tank fires on their Crown Vic police cruisers? In the US,
we still have legal recourse when such negligence is uncovered.
There are federal regulations and product laws to correct this but
with China, I just don't believe such recourse exist for the common
citizen.

Just a thought, when I buy a Volvo part for my 11 year old V70
or S90, that part is still made in Europe under Ford ownership.
If this is Chinese owned, I don't believe it will remain so but I hope
I'm wrong.

Regardless, I'm still disgusted with the whole thing...

On Mar 11, 10:28*pm, ih8change <ih8cha... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
You should say what you mean.


I'm not sure you can characterize a production year with a
nationality. The stock ownership may change at a given point in time
but that is about it. For example if Volvo is sold to Geely on
6/30/2009 then Geely will own the Volvo brand as well as the assets
and liabilities that are transferred over. A Volvo made on 6-29-2009
and 7-1-2009 will likely have parts from exactly the same sources and
will likely look exactly the same. The new owners may over time
change the mix of numerous countries in which they have parts
suppliers. That said I don't see where it would make any business
sense for the new owner to all of a sudden switch parts, designs and
downgrade quality.

Recourse in China is irrelevant unless you plan on travelling to China
and buying directly on the local market. That's a move I would not
recommend for any car whether BMW, Mercedes or Volvo. If you buy a
Volvo in the USA you would have legal recourse in the USA against the
importer as it is right now for any other international brand.

Sure it does. For example when Yugo fell flat all the suits went
against the esteemed USA importer and not Yugo in eastern europe.
Remember the disastrous Subaru 360 eposide? Similar outcome.

If you look carefully few of the parts in Volvo's are of swedish
origin. I'm not sure I understand your specirfic concern. Is it
about non-swedish parts, non-usa parts non-japanese parts or somehting
else.

I'm not sure what you want to remain or not change. The parts mix in
Volvo cars is truly international as with many other brands these
days.

What are you so disgusted about? The sale of car brands to other
owners? If the brand isn't sold to someone with cash to keep it
running then it will likely fail in my opinion. From my perspective
the loss of a brand with such a fine history is an undesirable outcome
no matter who owns the stock.


....- Hide quoted text -

I wouldn't be shocked, afterall GM did that with Saab. They immediately
discontinued the 900 model, took one of their models, the Opel Vectra as
I recall, gave it a facelift and called it the Saab 900, completely
different car, and virtually anyone who has owned both, particularly the
V6 will attest to it being inferior.

On Mar 12, 1:25*pm, James Sweet <jamesswe... (AT) trashmail (DOT) net> wrote:
I'm not sure the loss of an old model like the 900 is a bad thing. I
sent one daughter away to school with a used 900. It was a nice
design for it's time but a car company has to consider it's
competition.

I sent the other daughter away to schoool with a 240 It served it's
purpose, but the design was seriously out of date in 1994.

Imagine where Ford would be if it had simply continued making the 1950
Ford Custom. Or if Saab had simply continued the cramped 93 with a
buzzy little 3 cylinder motor.

It was just an example, at the time, the new 900 was inferior to the
classic 900 that it replaced, both are technically obsolete now, but the
classic 900 is much more desirable and nice examples are worth more now
to enthusiasts. I'm personally very fond of the classic 900, there's
just nothing else like it out there before or since, and I would take a
brand new one of those over most of the other new cars available any
day, but that's irrelevant, the point is GM took over and immediately
replaced a model with one of their own designs and gave it the same
name. In the time since, there have been catastrophes such as the 97
which is nothing but a GM trailblazer, the brand is really nothing but a
brand anymore, similar to the classic radio and hifi brands now
appearing on Chinese junk. Just the other day I saw a "Crosley" radio
which was made to look vintage but was in fact a cheap flimsy modern
radio with a CD player. I also came across a "Dual" car CD player, no
relation aside from the name itself to the well regarded turntables of
the 70s. Quite a few well known American tool brand names are now owned
by Chinese companies that slap the name on cheap inferior quality tools
which are then sold on the reputation of the name alone. Things may
change, as happened with Japan in the 70s, but at the present moment, I
associate "made in China" with cheap goods of inferior quality.

I must be seriously out of date myself, because I think the 240 is a
fantastic design and still serves quite a few people very well. Just
because something is new does not automatically make it better, but that
mentality does drive the rampant wasteful consumerism that the US is so
well known for. I could afford to buy a brand new Volvo if I wanted one,
but I prefer nicely maintained older stuff. Most new cars are far too
rounded and bubbly for my taste, and too cramped under the hood.

I suspect new 1950 Fords would sell like hotcakes, lots of people love a
bit of nostalgia, but they would never meet modern regulations. You can
buy all new parts to build a 1932 Ford from scratch, ends up costing a
lot more than buying a late model, but hot rodders do it.

On Mar 12, 2:23*pm, James Sweet <jamesswe... (AT) trashmail (DOT) net> wrote:
Whether you or I feel nostalgic about a given model really doesn't
mean much in the decision to continue a given model or kill and
replace with something new. A more important factor is really whether
one model will sell a sufficient number of cars or not. If current
and prospective Volvo buyers would line up in sufficient numbers to
buy a PV544, 140 or 240 then Volvo could make a lot more money by not
changing models. But consumer tastes and wants change over time and
if all you have to offer is vehicular nostalgia it won't sell many
cars.

I happpen to think my latest Volvo V70 is an improvement over the
early S80, which was an improvement over the 960 which was an
improvement over the 740 which was an improvement over the 240 that
was once in the stable. The improvement in features, drivability and
safety over that 25 year span has been dramatic. Each change was
incrementally better in my estimation.

On Mar 12, 7:48*am, Radioguy <hjs... (AT) cs (DOT) com> wrote:
What I'm disgusted about is that the Volvo car brand that I've grown
to admire
and appreciate may become something less in the hands of China. It's
obvious
that I'm not very objective about this but I have family who survived
the cultural
revolution and were able to migrate to America and shake off the yoke
of tyranny.

On Mar 13, 1:51*am, ih8change <ih8cha... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
And one could make a comparable argument that cars from Germany,
England, France and America are somehow tainted because of their
history of repression, war mongering, etc.